Bogley

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12142 Location: The Rubbish Bin

Udink wrote: Considering that right now it's illegal for drug users and convicted felons to own or possess firearms, and the government is almost completely ineffective at preventing it from happening.

That's a good point. But is there something out there that the government hasn't tried yet?

rock_ski_cowboy · Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 442

James wrote:
Internet being society... that's a hard one for me to swallow, but I'll give it to you.
Off topic, but I guess the fact that I personally know many of the people on this forum, and don't rule out the possibility of meeting more of you kind of puts it into perspective. Internet isn't society but its a real part of it, and its just as real of a form of communication as any other-- some people still don't get that and spout off all kinds of BS.

James wrote: But in the end I don't make apologies for the impression I give people. Nor do I give a shit about what people think of me. I am what you see. I don't put on different faces to make friends.
James

I do agree with you that you should be the person you are and not call someone something on the internet that you wouldn't call them to their face.

Back on guns, I'm like Justin, the few guns I own are only useful in hunting and target practice, and get taken out about once a year. Using them in self defense isn't really an option, considering how locked away they are. I don't own a hand gun and would hate to be faced with the decision of whether to shoot someone or not, for me its not really an option. Violence in general sucks.

Shan · Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 794 Location: Cache Valley

We were a non-gun household up until this summer. My hubby got his dad's old gun shipped out here from N.J. I am not too crazy about it, but not anti-gun enough to kick him and his gun out of the house or anything. But I'm not going to speak for him, he will say something totally different I'm sure.

That's about it, so perhaps I'm neutral. I probably should learn how to check if the safety is on and that stuff since it is in my home.

JamisJockey · Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 1023 Location: Woodbridge, VA

Better yet, Shan, take a state/NRA approved gun saftey course.
I encourage anyone who owns one to do so.

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12142 Location: The Rubbish Bin

JamisJockey wrote: I encourage anyone who owns one to do so.

And even those of you who don't own one, but are concerned about gun safety.

We each have our own ideas about "which is more safe", to have a gun, or not? And this answer gives us our viewpoint about firearms.

My prior scenario about getting rid of guns was to make a point; that point being we can see that guns will NEVER disappear, whether the government steps in or not.

There will ALWAYS be guns. Always.

So, what should we do about it? Should we try to avoid them our whole lives? We know the criminals have them, and use them.

Why not even the playing field? Owning a gun doesn't mean you have to use it. You can still choose to leave it in your holster while you are getting mugged or beaten. Really.

I haven't heard many stories where the gun gets taken away from the owner's hand, and used against him. That only happens in the movies when the chick stalls on shooting the bad guy. I've heard many more stories of somebody defending themselves with it, and after a non violent exchange, going safely back to their home with their family.

My suggestion is that everybody RESPONSIBLY own a gun, and you can choose to use it or NOT in the situation of your choice. Don't be scared that it will be used against you. No offense to anybody, but that's really just in the movies.

price1869 · Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject:

Sombeech wrote:
We each have our own ideas about "which is more safe", to have a gun, or not? And this answer gives us our viewpoint about firearms.

Umm . . . That's not really a very good question at all. That's like saying what's safer, using a saw or not? Driving a car or sitting on your ass at home? Maybe we should all live in big padded plastic bubbles. I could probably live a lot longer if I didn't canyoneer, mt. bike, cave, climb, etc. It's not about what's safe. It's about personal responsibility

That's what all politics need to be about. Taking some personal responsibility. That's why people left Europe, that's why they fought for independence. Granted, government is necessary to protect individual rights, but the United States government does not exist to take responsibility for your actions or mine. The Government is not a scape goat. (or as I like to say, an "escaped goat") :roflol:

Anyway, Sorry to bag on your question Sombeech. I'm generally on your side of the debate here. Just thought that was a little soft. I'm going to go inside and shut myself off from the dangerous world now. :doorpeak:

jimflint1 · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 549 Location: Middle-of-Nowhere

Quote: So, what should we do about it? Should we try to avoid them our whole lives? We know the criminals have them, and use them.

It's actually been proven that in states where conceal-carry permits are allowed, violent crime has gone down. It's also important to note that in many many cases where guns are used to kill an acquaintance, those acquaintances are members of rival gangs.

Self-defense is not murder. James--if it is, then all our soldiers are murderers.

Violence never solves anything. Then what solved Hitler?

Here's a scenario for you. Tell me what you'd do: Let's say you're asleep in your bed, and your daughters are asleep in another bedroom ala Elizabeth Smart. But, unlike Ed Smart, you actually hear the window to your daughter's room open, hear her struggling and screaming. Do you call 911? Or do you rush in there with whatever weapon you happen to have on hand? Pu**ies would call 911, lowering their voice, trying not to draw the attackers attention to them while they cowered in their room. Real fathers would attack the attacker. Now, you go into the daughter's room and the guy has her by the arm and is trying to drag her out the window.
Do you say "now now, you don't really want to do that. Come on now Mr. Mitchell, you're a nice man let go of my daughter"? Well, let's say you try that and it works. He lets her go, then comes at you with his gun or knife. Do you keep sweet-talking him or do you blow him away?

Or how about this: you stumble across a sniper with his rifle trained on a school yard down below. Do you wave your arms and yell at him, telling him what he's doing is wrong? If so, he'll kill you first, then kill the kids. If you happened to have the means to kill him to stop him from killing the kids would you? Or would you not do it, because you'd be as bad as he is for murdering someone?

Okay, I like guns and I own them--and I don't like being called a pu**y for it. In fact, those saying that should probably not say it, because some people might ask you to prove it. Not me. I believe every word you say.

Shane

JamisJockey · Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 1023 Location: Woodbridge, VA

A 1 ounce slug between the nipples would have taken care of Mr. Mitchell nicely.

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12142 Location: The Rubbish Bin

price1869 wrote: Anyway, Sorry to bag on your question Sombeech. I'm generally on your side of the debate here. Just thought that was a little soft.

I know, dude. I'm moderating this mutha, so I'm trying to stay a little neutral.

Just so everybody knows, I have my concealed weapons permit. I fully support the responsible handling of firearms. They will always be around, so I think it's best to get over it. Conquer your fear of the gun by learning about them.

If you still don't want to use them, that's fine. Neither do I!! But buy one anyways to educate yourself.

jimflint1 · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 549 Location: Middle-of-Nowhere

I know this is a little far-fetched, but if the day ever came that some of the sleeper cells of terrorists ran through my neck of the woods, beheading my friends and neighbors, and the cops were pre-occupied elsewhere--say a huge attack downtown--I'd like to take my chances with a gun, instead of a broom, a shovel, or a mop. Would I gun down Osama in the street if I ever got the chance? You bet I would--and then I'd take my chances with God later.

On another point--when gun violence stats are measured, rarely is society as a whole taken into account. Why do people act stupidly and leave their guns where children can find them? Why do young people committ suicide? What is the underlying cause of gang involvement? The answers to these kinds of questions could provide solutions to the disease and not just the symptoms.

Shane

James_B_Wads2000 · Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:57 am Post subject:

jimflint1 wrote: It's actually been proven that in states where conceal-carry permits are allowed, violent crime has gone down.

Yeah that’s right it has been like 30 years since someone has been shot in Texas. I will repeat what I stated earlier: skewed numbers and made-up statistics are useless to this argument. (They have also proved that masturbating will make you go blind.)

jimflint1 wrote: James--if it is, then all our soldiers are murderers.

Yep, murder is murder no matter how you justify it.

jimflint1 wrote: Here's a scenario for you. Tell me what you'd do: Let's say you're asleep in your bed, and your daughters are asleep in another bedroom ala Eliz… blah blah blah …:blahblah:

You’re right the exception proves the rule. Because this highly unlikely scenario might repeat its self again I should own a gun? What are you trying to say? Just because I don’t want to shoot people, then I deserve any bad thing that happens to my family and me?

jimflint1 wrote: Or how about this: you stumble across a sniper with his rifle trained on a schoolyard down below. Do you wave your arms and yell at him, telling him what he's doing is wrong?

Do you live in Afghanistan? I would wave my arms and yell, “if you’re a sniper trying to kill people, then why are you on the ground where I can stumble over you?!”

jimflint1 wrote: In fact, those saying that should probably not say it, because some people might ask you to prove it.

What are they going to do? Shoot me? How far would that go in proving they're not pussies?

jimflint1 wrote: I believe every word you say.

Finally I converted one! :blahblah:

jimflint1 · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 549 Location: Middle-of-Nowhere

If you don't like bad facts, then you should stop using them.

Quote: Yep, murder is murder no matter how you justify it.

Murder is murder. Self-defense or the defense of others isn't.

Quote: Just because I don’t want to shoot people, then I deserve any bad thing that happens to my family and me?

No--but is it just guns you don't want to use, or would you refuse to harm someone via any means or for any reason?

Quote:
I would wave my arms and yell, “if you’re a sniper trying to kill people, then why are you on the ground where I can stumble over you?!”

I thought so.

Quote: What are they going to do? Shoot me? How far would that go in proving they're not pussies?

Sit down and have another beer.

Shane

jimflint1 · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 549 Location: Middle-of-Nowhere

Aw heck, forget it. I didn't come to this site to argue or flame. I'll never change your mind--and you won't change mine. To me, these kind of flame wars aren't worth it to perpetuate.

Shane

JamisJockey · Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 1023 Location: Woodbridge, VA

jimflint1 wrote: Aw heck, forget it. I didn't come to this site to argue or flame. I'll never change your mind--and you won't change mine. To me, these kind of flame wars aren't worth it to perpetuate.

Shane

Yea I've lost all interest in debating any topic with someone who immediately refers to other people as pussies.

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12142 Location: The Rubbish Bin

Doesn't it feel like those who own guns get persecuted by "anti gunners"?

Have you gun owners ever yelled at anybody just because they didn't have a gun? Sure there's been some arguing back and forth on this thread, but I can only be accused of "waiting to kill somebody" until a certain point.

Some of us know FIRST HAND how owning a gun has saved our lives. I won't go into detail in this thread, 'cause it's a lot of boring reading.

There will always be guns. You can decide to be full of hate the rest of your life at this fact, or you can accept that it would be better for us all to gain some more education about it.