Bogley

James_B_Wads2000 · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject:

JamisJockey wrote: Oh, and James, I forgot to add:
I am not going toe to toe with some gang member who wants to carjack my car with my kids in it. I'm going to end any situation I can't get out of in a very quick, violent manner.

Interesting scenario, I have a suggestion: If you think you'd have enough time to reach for a gun without getting shot, then wouldn't you have enough time to put the car in drive and drive off rather than murder someone in fount of you wife/children? Or maybe give up the car rather than getting killed or killing someone?

You see this is my hang up with gun owners, this idea that deadly force is the way to solve your problems. And the way gun owners fantasize about getting the chance to shoot someone. You create these bullsh*t unlikely and unrealistic scenarios (like the one above) where you, the hero, are in a situation where you committing murder is justified. Murder is sick no matter how you justify it. And in my humble opinion people who own guns with the implied or explicit intention of shooting someone are sick to (guns for hunting or sporting are an exception).

"Guns are for Pussies" is not meant to be taken so literal. A pu**y in this case is someone who is afraid of things in this world that they can't control (other people’s actions, death). And believe somehow having a gun is going to change that. Not the case.

James

James_B_Wads2000 · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject:

rock_ski_cowboy wrote:
Hmmm. I'm not even mad, ... I realize there are a lot of closed-minded jerks out there, maybe you just happen to be one of them. I'm sorry if such is the case, but I hope it isn't.

Come on taking the high road isn't the way you fight in these flame wars. Your right my personal attack on you (the BYU thing) was uncalled for.

rock_ski_cowboy wrote:
...If its not, you should think about the impression you're giving people when you type personally inflammatory things like that. It may be the internet, but its still society.

Internet being society... that's a hard one for me to swallow, but I'll give it to you. But in the end I don't make apologies for the impression I give people. Nor do I give a shit about what people think of me. I am what you see. I don't put on different faces to make friends.

James

Udink · Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 803 Location: Price, Utah

James_B_Wads2000 wrote: "Guns are for Pussies" is not meant to be taken so literal. A pussy in this case is someone who is afraid of things in this world that they can't control (other people’s actions, death). And believe somehow having a gun is going to change that. Not the case.
Do you, then, advocate that all seat belts be removed from motor vehicles? I wear my seat belt because it gives me some control over what would otherwise be out of my control (other peoples' actions, death).

I'd like to know where you really stand on this issue. One would think your stance is clear by reading your posts, but you haven't explicitly stated that you are against people carrying firearms for self-defense. You've said several times that "guns are for pussies," but that remark is obviously intended to be inflammatory, rather than to stimulate an intelligent discussion (which I believe you are incapable of).

Superriffic S* · Guest

TreeHugger wrote: OK, once again, we dont need to look at other comparisons because the topic/debate is about GUNS. Drownings, stabbings, chemicals, suicides, car accicidents are irrelevant. We're looking at the impact of GUNS on society. Your arguments are just silly, in my opinion. You totally have the right to have your lovely little guns, but that doesnt make you automatically right - there are a lot of people being hurt and killed, kids included, accidentally or needlessly, by guns, period. Do the advantages of having guns outweigh the risk? In your opinion, yes, in my opinion, I dont think so. This is the kind of argument that will never be settled, people feel way too strongly on this issue to ever admit there is anything flawed in their thinking... it's really not worth debating any longer to me....

continue on without me...

What a cop out. Do you feel as though you are losing your argument? Maybe feel a little out numbered? So you have to put out the "it's really not worth debating any longer to me..." comment? I think that the conversation on guns always turns into the conversation on violence as a whole and until all you gun hating people realize that there will be violence in numerous forms no matter what... we will always continue this debate. And, again... if you want to kill someone, you will find a way. Whether with a gun, knife, machete, mallet, poison or the infamous 5 pressure point kill that will stop your heart and leave no trace (thanks, Kill Bill).

So, in the immortal words of Cher (Alicia Silverstone) in Clueless (the Movie)... "So, OK, the Attorney General says there is too much violence on T.V. and that should stop. But even if you took out all the violent shows, you could still see the news. So, until mankind is peaceful enough not to have violence on the news, there's no point in taking it out of shows that need it for entertainment value. Thank you."

Oh, and... Life is a Musical!

rockgremlin · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject:

I'm getting a kick out of all this. :haha: I own three guns: 12gauge shotgun, hunting rifle, and a 22 long pistol. These guns sit in a cupboard in the garage, 15 feet off the ground. They were given to me by my father, and they mean a lot to me (sentimental value). I don't profess that they will make our home safer (obviously, since they're stashed away), but they're great hunting weapons, and the thought of shooting another human being with them repulses me.

Have fun and...flame on!! :twisted:

James_B_Wads2000 · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject:

Udink wrote:
Do you, then, advocate that all seat belts be removed from motor vehicles? I wear my seat belt because it gives me some control over what would otherwise be out of my control (other peoples' actions, death).

I didn't think of it that way. That's a hard one but I think my statement still stands. Yes, always wearing your seatbelt will reduce you chances of getting killed or injured in auto accidents. But comparing a gun to a seatbelt drives to the heart of the debate.

Does having a gun reduce the chance of getting injured in some sort of a personal attack? I don't think so. Why? Because increasing the numbers of deadly weapons into a highly charged situation is only going to increase the likelihood of injury to all parties.

Is there situations where pulling a gun on your attacker will stop the attack? Yes of course there is. But that is risky because if they call your bluff then one of you is likely going to be badly hurt or dead. I guess I'm not willing to find out. I'd rather try to find the solution that leads to everyone being alive.

Now all the gun lovers are going to say what about when its life and death? I would say that makes up the smallest percentage of all the possible cases and shouldn't be used as the model to govern all situations.

That's my opinion anyways.

Udink wrote: I'd like to know where you really stand on this issue. ... rather than to stimulate an intelligent discussion (which I believe you are incapable of).

Do you even care what I really think? Or is it all too unintelligible.

James

rockgremlin · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject:

James_B_Wads2000 wrote: Is there situations where pulling a gun on your attacker will stop the attack? Yes of course there is. But that is risky because if they call your bluff then one of you is likely going to be badly hurt or dead. I guess I'm not willing to find out. I'd rather try to find the solution that leads to everyone being alive.

Now all the gun lovers are going to say what about when its life and death? I would say that makes up the smallest percentage of all the possible cases and shouldn't be used as the model to govern all situations.

James

This is pretty much my stance also. I think 99.9% of all situations can be resolved by means other than deadly force.

crazy horse · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject:

Quote: You anti-gun nut liberals just kill me. Can we please just ban cell phones. I've had a lot more people almost kill me with their cars + a pleasant cell phone conversation than with guns. Accidental or not. Can the liberals just cede from the union, and try to fight off the french pussies when they come to take them over? Ha ha You really shouldn't take a stance on anything though. You might be offending someone. Oh right, as long as its just white males, they don't count. They need to be repaying all of the wrongs that their ancestors did to a bunch of people who couldn't stand up for themselves. Isn't evolution a generally accepted liberal principle, perhaps Darwinism? Survival of the fittest? Well, I'm the fittest and I'm going to kick your ass. How do you feel about that?

Thats freaking hilarious. Its about time someone just told things how they are. Thats really all it is too, people getting offended about one thing or another, and its really just a bunch of bs. By the way, you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands, and i'm not even a redneck or a gangbanger. Good, law-abiding citizens own firearms too, you know.

crazy horse · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject:

Quote: Murder is sick no matter how you justify it.

This is true, murder is definately sick no matter how you justify it. But is killing someone who is putting your own or your loved one's lives at danger murder? No. Its self defense. Also, is the world really going to suffer if gun owners blast a few potential rapists and murderers? Nope, we'll all be better off with those people permanantly removed from the world. This is the same reason that i'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but thats a whole different issue.

accadacca · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject:

icthys wrote: If I'm going to be raped (I hope it's that Sam chick on Las Vegas) she would take me from behind slap me upside the head, and other things.
You sick puppy.... :getiton: :roflol:

Anyone find these emoticons offensive??? :assault: :rifle: :defend:
Just trying light things up a bit.......... :popcorn:

rockgremlin · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject:

I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!

accadacca · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject:

rockgremlin wrote: I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!
Looks like a missile or something? Are you offended? :lol8:

Sombeech · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject:

accadacca wrote: rockgremlin wrote: I'm still trying to figure out what this guy is shooting at.

:defend:

What is that thing?!
Looks like a missile or something? Are you offended? :lol8:

I'm terribly offended... at the color of the yellow smiley face. :haha:

I think he's shooting down a "scud" missle. Maybe he's got a miniature Patriot missile gun.

Patriot missile. Now there's a firearm up for debate.

Sombeech · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject:

Well, we've definitely got some strong views out there, and I think that's good.

Let me ask everybody a question, and let's pretend that we're all "neutral" on the subject, if it were possible.

If for some reason, it became illegal to own a firearm, what would be the best method for "collecting" the guns?

Something to think about, and this is an honest question. The answers to this won't necessarily have any bias to your opinion on guns. I just want to know if you guys have ever thought if it would even be possible to get rid of guns.

This is a fair question for "both" sides to think about. If you are "anti gun", you may have an idea on how to get rid of them. If you are "pro gun", you should have some opinions on why it wouldn't work.

Would it be possible to get rid of guns? :ne_nau:

Let's hear 'em.

Udink · Guest Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 803 Location: Price, Utah

Sombeech wrote: Let me ask everybody a question, and let's pretend that we're all "neutral" on the subject, if it were possible.

If for some reason, it became illegal to own a firearm, what would be the best method for "collecting" the guns?

Something to think about, and this is an honest question. The answers to this won't necessarily have any bias to your opinion on guns. I just want to know if you guys have ever thought if it would even be possible to get rid of guns.

This is a fair question for "both" sides to think about. If you are "anti gun", you may have an idea on how to get rid of them. If you are "pro gun", you should have some opinions on why it wouldn't work.

Would it be possible to get rid of guns? :ne_nau:

Let's hear 'em.

Considering that right now it's illegal for drug users and convicted felons to own or possess firearms, and the government is almost completely ineffective at preventing it from happening, then it goes without saying that it would be impossible for them to get rid of all guns, including those now legally owned and possessed.

As for people who are currently law-abiding firearm owners, I can only speak for myself as to what would happen if the government suddenly made firearms illegal. I would become a criminal instantly, and I would remain that way until the day I die.