Bogley

[tanya]

denaliguide wrote: here's another lava shot. what a difference in the water color. the big hole is just to my right. it's huge!!

Have you done the Grand Canyon more than once?

[Iceaxe]

tanya wrote: Did you raft the Grand Canyon Shane?

Nope.... The Grand the only major section of the Colorado or Green I have not done. No way in hell I can take a month off of work to do it.... so my plan at the moment is this is to be my first great adventure when I retire. Since I came up with that idea I've kinda been saving it.

It gives me something to look forward to other then wearing Depends and eating prunes :haha:

:popcorn:

[tanya]

Iceaxe wrote: tanya wrote: Did you raft the Grand Canyon Shane?

Nope.... The Grand the only major section of the Colorado or Green I have not done. No way in hell I can take a month off of work to do it.... so my plan at the moment is this is to be my first great adventure when I retire. Since I came up with that idea I've kinda been saving it.

It gives me something to look forward to other then wearing Depends and eating prunes :haha:

:popcorn:

Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times! This time not 6 weeks after surgery! OUCH!

[Iceaxe]

tanya wrote: Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times!

For a month long trip I would probably go Pro or maybe hook up with someone who picked up a permit. If you can go on short notice or row a raft or are willing to go off-season it's not to hard to get on a trip.

:popcorn:

[tanya]

Iceaxe wrote: tanya wrote: Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times!

For a month long trip I would probably go Pro or maybe hook up with someone who picked up a permit. If you can go on short notice or row a raft or are willing to go off-season it's not to hard to get on a trip.

:popcorn:

I can do those! Sign me up! :popcorn:

[denaliguide]

Bo was stung by a scorpion our 2nd night on the river. He did not set up a tent and was sleeping out on the ground. After than he started to set up his tent. Is there more than one variety of scorpions along the river in the canyon?

I was stung by one at Kolob Arch in Zion and did not have to get medical help either?[/quote]

yes, as i remember there's 2 species of scorpion found in the grand canyon. one subspecies called the grand canyon slender scorpion is small and has a real nasty sting. the smaller the more dangerous.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/naturescience/insects.htm

[soitgos]

I've been on the river when people have died. Luckily, not people who were actually with me. We ran Marsh Creek in 2003 because the road to Boundary Creek was still closed. Two people on two separate trips died that day. May 25, 2003 was not a good day.

I was scouting the gorge on the Selway in June 2004 when I witnesses a raft capsize in Ladle. One person made no attempt to get out of the river. I ran down the trail more than a mile until I was wheezing and had to stop. We later learned she died.

Last summer I was on a GC trip where a man had to be evacuated. This was due to complications of diabetes, not something that happened on the river. He later died.

I have acquaintances on the trip that resulted in the death that initiated this thread. Perhaps some of you know Steve Pace? It was his permit. He waited a very long time to get it. And then a tragedy like this occurs.

Sad.

[tanya]

soitgos wrote: I've been on the river when people have died. Luckily, not people who were actually with me. We ran Marsh Creek in 2003 because the road to Boundary Creek was still closed. Two people on two separate trips died that day. May 25, 2003 was not a good day.

I was scouting the gorge on the Selway in June 2004 when I witnesses a raft capsize in Ladle. One person made no attempt to get out of the river. I ran down the trail more than a mile until I was wheezing and had to stop. We later learned she died.

Last summer I was on a GC trip where a man had to be evacuated. This was due to complications of diabetes, not something that happened on the river. He later died.

I have acquaintances on the trip that resulted in the death that initiated this thread. Perhaps some of you know Steve Pace? It was his permit. He waited a very long time to get it. And then a tragedy like this occurs.

Sad.

The little local paper here reported a Kayaker death at Lake Powell.... very sad.

I have the deepest respect for those that fall out of those boats and keep running the rivers. What kills most people? The cold? Rocks? Unable to surface?

[soitgos]

Floating rivers is actually not particularly dangerous. At least statistically speaking. Not nearly as dangerous as riding in an automobile.

Lots of different things cause death on the river. I sincerely don’t mean to be insensitive due to the recent death in the GC, but most deaths are due to someone not being prepared or doing something stupid. The two deaths I mentioned on Marsh Creek were both completely preventable. One was a 300 pound man in a wetsuit in 42-degree water. He fell out of the raft and actually made it to the side of the river and stood up. He was safe at that point. He saw the other people in the raft having a difficult getting over to the side of the river, because at high water there are just no eddies. He became scared he was being left and got back in the water. He swam to the raft, while the others rowed backward. He made it, but was spent by the time he got there. In attempting to get him in the boat, the raft was capsized. The other two, who hadn’t been in the water, made it to shore. His body was found July 4.

The second death was a man who wasn’t wearing a lifejacket or helmet. Was knocked from the raft by a low hanging tree (this isn’t the Grand Canyon). He was never seen again.

I would say that more deaths are probably caused by exposure than anything else. I’ve heard of people going into ventricular fibrillation from cold shock. Equipment entrapment also results in deaths every year. The moral there is, keep your ropes wrapped and out of the way. Occasionally someone dies from foot entrapment in a shallow river. Kayaks have become much safer in recent years. There used to be deaths every year from kayakers become entrapped in their boat. That doesn’t happen very often anymore.

People need to know what they’re doing on the river. If you’re going to do serious whitewater, and especially if you’re going to do it in cold weather/cold water, you need to have self-rescue skills. There will be a rescue workshop June 8-10, if anyone is interested. I could post some information.

[tanya]

Do we have to go in cold water to participate in the workshop :mrgreen:

[soitgos]

It won't be particularly cold in June, but swimming and getting out of the water are certainly skills we hope participants will learn.

My rule is if someone is going with me on class 4 water before June or after September you must be able to get back in a raft and get on top of an overturned raft.

You have to be able to save yourself. You just can't expect someone else to be there for you. After all, they've probably got their hands full saving themselves.

The first rule of the river is never create a second victim.

[tanya]

soitgos wrote: It won't be particularly cold in June, but swimming and getting out of the water are certainly skills we hope participants will learn.

My rule is if someone is going with me on class 4 water before June or after September you must be able to get back in a raft and get on top of an overturned raft.

You have to be able to save yourself. You just can't expect someone else to be there for you. After all, they've probably got their hands full saving themselves.

The first rule of the river is never create a second victim.

Are you talking Grand Canyon? Is the water in the 40's in June?

[soitgos]

Oh no. I wish Grand Canyon. This will be on the Green River, just outside the town of Green River. I expect the temp to be somewhere near 60. Evening classroom session Friday, June 8, all day Saturday and through early afternoon Sunday. It's billed as a beginners rescue course, but it's good for everyone to learn and practice these skills. It could save your life.

[tanya]

soitgos wrote: Oh no. I wish Grand Canyon. This will be on the Green River, just outside the town of Green River. I expect the temp to be somewhere near 60. Evening classroom session Friday, June 8, all day Saturday and through early afternoon Sunday. It's billed as a beginners rescue course, but it's good for everyone to learn and practice these skills. If could save your life.


I can live with 60 :2thumbs: Are you teaching? I think you would be a great teacher. :nod:

[soitgos]

I will be one of the instructors, although I have two remarkable young men coming in to do most of it. You'll be shocked at the things these guys can do. Have you ever seen someone mantel the bow of an 18-foot Maravia? It's worth the price of admission just to watch what these guys can do. You'll also be shocked at what you're capable of after learning a little technique. You probably know that from rock climbing . . .