Bogley

[Iceaxe]

Arches Seeking Input for Climbing Management Plan

Date: March 9, 2007
Contact: Laura Joss, (435) 719-2201

Arches National Park is soliciting public comments regarding the development of a Climbing Management Plan. In 2006,unusual climbing activities raised public interest and concern about issues associated with technical rock climbing.

"We've decided to take a new look at our climbing policies, "commented Laura Joss, superintendent of the park. “We’re asking for suggestions from the public about options regarding climbing activities in the park, as well as issues to be addressed.”

Issues identified to date include effects on natural and cultural resources, use of fixed hardware, designating climbing routes, development of approach trails, rock alteration, vegetation alteration, visual impacts and the effects of climbing on visitor safety and experiences.

A climbing management planning effort will consider a full range of alternatives to protect resources, visitors and visitor experience. This plan will comply with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA), and will seek to involve as many individuals as possible who have an interest in or concerns about climbing activities at Arches.

The scoping phase of the process will continue until May 4, 2007. After that an environmental assessment will be developed, which will be available for public review and comment.

Scoping comments may be submitted over the internet at http://parkplanning.nps.gov or by mail to Superintendent, Arches National Park, PO Box 907, Moab, UT 84532.

[Iceaxe]

Oh yeah.... I think we have Dean Potter to thank for this little clusterfuck :frustrated:

[scoutabout]

Oooh, a fun opportunity for the motorized community to start a massive letter campaign to end any and all climbing in Arches NP. Climbing isn't a valid form of recreation. It is only good for mindless muscle-heads who don't really enjoy the backcountry. It negatively affects our park experience to see people climbing all over everything.

Ridiculous, yes. That's how we feel everytime something is opened for comments and the peanut gallery chimes in with ignorant comments and made up "facts".

Sorry, had to.

On a serious note, I actually AM against climbing in Arches. It's a National Park. There are plenty of other great places to climb (again, right out of the anti-access vernacular). What happens if someone climbs Balanced Rock and it falls over therefore removing the opportunity to view it from millions of future visitors.

I've heard that some are upset that Potter's climb left grooves in Delicate Arch from his ropes. How can climbing be allowed on these other structures if even a single climber can cause visible damage?

[Iceaxe]

scoutabout wrote: What happens if someone climbs Balanced Rock and it falls over therefore removing the opportunity to view it from millions of future visitors.

Climbing is banned in Arches on all USGS features named on the map. It has been that way for a long time and the rule was well understood and respected in the climbing community. Problem was the rule was poorly worded so the NPS didn't press charges against Potter..... I wish they had of.

And FWIW.... I'm a big fan of shared access :2thumbs:

[price1869]

Yeah, paving a big road through the park is much much less impactful than a few bolds and anchors. What if those dirty climbers got white chalk on the red sandstone. I'm guessing that the hordes of hell would be released to wreak havock on the Good-hearted camera toting tourists.

Anyway, in all seriousness, last time I was in arches hiked up to delicate arch. There were just a few people bowling rocks down the trail.

Seriously, when, when have you ever seen a climber defacing, or otherwise damaging wilderness. No climber would pull balanced rock down even if it were possible. Yeah, Dean Potter is an idiot. I hate him, but the majority of the damage was to the NPS's pride.

There are a lot of other places to climb, but why should it be banned in the Park?

Ice, I'm with your list, except for #1. Fixed hardware is an essential part of safe climbing. It's shouldn't be placed on named features.

[Brian in SLC]

scoutabout wrote: Climbing isn't a valid form of recreation. It is only good for mindless muscle-heads who don't really enjoy the backcountry. It negatively affects our park experience to see people climbing all over everything.

Yikes!

My bet is if you really got a bell curve of the climbers out there, in terms of either their education, or their relative IQ (or whatever criteria you wanted to apply to judge smarts),you'd find a fair share of muscle heads. But, you'd also find an enormous amount of fairly smart guys. A fair number of noble prize winners even.

scoutabout wrote: On a serious note, I actually AM against climbing in Arches. It's a National Park. There are plenty of other great places to climb (again, right out of the anti-access vernacular). What happens if someone climbs Balanced Rock and it falls over therefore removing the opportunity to view it from millions of future visitors.

That its a National Park is a reason?

Double yikes!

Look closely. Balanced Rock is glued together by the park. Dude, its bomber! Otherwise, it would have fallen off a long time ago on its own. And, its been off limits to climbers for a long, long time. Not so the formation Bubo next door however...

Other places? You mean like Denali, Gates of the Arctic, Saint Elias, Yosemite, Mount Rainier....whoops, those are national parks too.

Geez, even military parks like Lookout Mountain and Harpers Ferry have and allow climbing.

John Muir was a climber...

-Brian in SLC

[DiscGo]

Brian in SLC wrote: Balanced Rock is glued together by the park.

I don't get what you are trying to say here? Do you actually believe that?


I believe that as long as they rock colored chalk climbing and canyoonerring should be allowed in Parks. I just feel like the climbing should be in designated areas. Delicate Arch, Angels Landing, Yosemite Falls, (other major attractions), etc. should be off limits.

[price1869]

This is killing me. I figured that Uutah would be the last place that a bunch of people would be so closed-minded and ignorant about this kind of an issue. Do you also think that canyoneering should be off limits in Zion?

Fixed Hardware?????

The national parks should be promoting climbing. They should promote recreation. Their purpose is to bring people to the outdoors and get them involved in outdoor recreation. Taking pictures of a rock is not a form of outdoor recreation.

Think about it. Conservation isn't about banning people from enjoying the outdoors. A lot more damage is done by the jackasses with cameras and markers and kids and trash. Has anyone been up to delicate arch lately? Have you walked along the path that was created using rock drills and explosives?

I still place the blame for this squarely on Dean Potter, but that doesn't excuse the ignorance of the NPS, UUtards, and the general public.

This wasn't done by climbers:


Did anyo

[Iceaxe]

If the park wants to go the designate route...... Instead of designating areas open to climbing, I would prefer to see the park designate areas closed to climbing. I know it looks like semantics, but the second option usually results in better access.

:popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

price1869 wrote: The national parks should be promoting climbing. They should promote recreation. Their purpose is to bring people to the outdoors and get them involved in outdoor recreation.

I learned a long time ago the only thing the National Park rangers are concerned with is herding 90% of the people into 10% of the area because it makes their job much easier.

:popcorn:

[jumar]

Quote: Climbing isn't a valid form of recreation. It is only good for mindless muscle-heads who don't really enjoy the backcountry.
:eek2: :blahblah: :roll:

[Brian in SLC]

DiscGolfDivers wrote: Brian in SLC wrote: Balanced Rock is glued together by the park.
I don't get what you are trying to say here? Do you actually believe that?
I believe that as long as they rock colored chalk climbing and canyoonerring should be allowed in Parks. I just feel like the climbing should be in designated areas. Delicate Arch, Angels Landing, Yosemite Falls, (other major attractions), etc. should be off limits.

Believe it? Take a close look at it, right at the point you'd think its most weak. Gray colored glue of some type. Been that way for years. I have some fairly decent pic's of it (slides). Call Arches and ask if you want.

Angels Landing off limits? Why why why? Not only is there a great (and super exposed) hiking route, protected by chain, pipe, etc, to the summit. But there are at least a couple dozen technical climbing routes. Has been for years.

Kinda surprised at some of the negativity related to climbing...hmmm...

There's some great climbing in Arches. Dark Angel, the Gossips, Sheep Rock, Owl Rock etc etc etc. Folks have been climbing in Arches since at least the 50's.

-Brian in SLC

[jumar]

Quote: Kinda surprised at some of the negativity related to climbing...hmmm...

Me too :ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

Brian in SLC wrote: Kinda surprised at some of the negativity related to climbing...hmmm...

Ditto

I'm getting the feeling that some of this anger is aimed at the Sierra club/SUWA type groups and not exactly at the climbers who may or may not be card carrying members.

It's also the nice thing about a forum with such a great mix of hobbies. I think you get a better cross of what the general public thinks.

:popcorn:

[Jaxx]

Even though I am not an avid rock climber I loved seeing the people climbing when I went to Yosemite. I am an extreme noob at rock climbing but I do find it interesting, I guess if I didn't my opinion may change but I thought it was cool to be able to see their routes by the white chalk on it. I personally don't think climbing should be banned except for certain areas like delicate arch where it could damage the arch. But where do you draw the line? All named Arches? Using colored chalk is ok in my book.

It brings up a dificult question and unfortunately the NPS is a business, they want more money for less work. That is why they will always cater to the tourist that wants to take pictures. They pay more and have more numbers than the rock climbers/canyoneers ever could.