Bogley

snatch · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 102

I'm planning a trip to Thunder Springs, Deer Creek, and Tapeats Amphitheater near the north rim of the Grand Canyon for this summer. Anybody have info/previous experience with the area?

northernoutpost · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 24 Location: West Vancouver, BC

Last October, I went down the Thunder River Trail and over to Deer Creek, before heading down canyon to Kanab, then out. I guess that covers part of your area of interest. Is there anything you'd like to know about that particular segment?

Scott P · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1648

Personally, I wouldn't go in summer. Is there a reason why you have to go in summer?

snatch · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 102

summer to late fall. summer isn't a mandatory. i was hoping for some pics or beta on the trails, springs, best camping spots, etc, etc.

northernoutpost · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 24 Location: West Vancouver, BC

The TR is in the attached link. The first couple of days would cover the stretch you're interested in. Lots of nice, open bench country to walk, so as Scott notes, it will be warm. I had temps into the low 90's near the river. Camped the first night at the base of the Redwall switchbacks in Surprise Valley. There are lots of potential sites on the Esplenade and a few in Surprise, but these are dry camps. Scenic, but dry. The camps near Deer Creek have lots of scratchy stuff-the best one I saw was on a ledge near the start of the narrows. Not sure how legal it is in the GCNP context, but it was nice. The trails are pretty rough, but generally easy to follow. Deer Springs and the Deer Creek narrows are highly worthwhile side trips, but the upper Deer Creek redwall gorge looks pretty scratchy. Can be pretty busy with the river trippers.

http://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18913

I tried to book the sites about a month and a half in advance, and failed. Managed to get more or less what I wanted on the walk-in plan. Not sure this would work very often, but I've been lucky thus far with GCNP.

mroy · Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 229 Location: North Ogden

My TR for that trip is here (sans the ampitheater, that's for another trip): http://www.mikepearce.us/mp-the-stair-machine-from-hell-aka-tapeats-creek-to-deer-creek-loop-via-the-bill-hall-trail--trip-58-entry.htm
Pics, Google Earth file, Map, Elevation, etc..: http://www.mikepearce.us/tapeats-deercreek/default.asp

I got permits via the walk in method. There are no water sources above Deer Creek or Thunder River. The official campsites for that area aren't that great in my opinion. If I were to do it again, and in 3 days instead of four, I'd spend two nights in Surprise Valley, and day trip it through the loop. If you're spending 4-5 days, I'd camp on the rim of Thunder Canyon in Surprise Valley, head down the next day and either stay at the lower tapeats camp or keep going down the Colorado before the ascent on the traverse and camp around there, then another night in surprise valley. There's high demand for the official camps, but I'd much prefer to camp at large.

Coming up from the deer creek camp, we didn't realize where deer creek springs were, so we went up canyon about a 1/3 of a mile and things ran dry. There's several springs further up from where the Deer Creek Spring joins up with the rest of the spring water, so just look for a huge climb up a rocky trail before hitting the spring, then a hike up around the base of a cliff and then a trail on top of the cliff above the spring to make your way out of Deer Creek.

Water caches: I cached 2 liters at the end of the Bill Hall Trail on the Esplanade, and I ended up dumping most of it.

mroy · Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 229 Location: North Ogden

northernoutpost wrote: The TR is in the attached link. The first couple of days would cover the stretch you're interested in. Lots of nice, open bench country to walk, so as Scott notes, it will be warm. I had temps into the low 90's near the river. Camped the first night at the base of the Redwall switchbacks in Surprise Valley. There are lots of potential sites on the Esplenade and a few in Surprise, but these are dry camps. Scenic, but dry. The camps near Deer Creek have lots of scratchy stuff-the best one I saw was on a ledge near the start of the narrows. Not sure how legal it is in the GCNP context, but it was nice. The trails are pretty rough, but generally easy to follow. Deer Springs and the Deer Creek narrows are highly worthwhile side trips, but the upper Deer Creek redwall gorge looks pretty scratchy. Can be pretty busy with the river trippers.

http://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18913

I tried to book the sites about a month and a half in advance, and failed. Managed to get more or less what I wanted on the walk-in plan. Not sure this would work very often, but I've been lucky thus far with GCNP.

I checked out your trip report. Kanab Canyon has been high on my list of things to do. I never thought of linking it up with a trip through Deer Creek. I'm not sure how motivated I'd be to make it all the way to the Colorado, but then again the majority of my trips to the GC have always made it to the river, either directly or with a side trip. It probably wouldn't feel right unless I did. I saw that the date of your trip report is pretty close to when I went - Oct 21-24, and yeah, it was still close around 90 at the river the next week. Gorgeous weather slightly higher up. That region of the GC is purportedly warmer than other sections.

snatch · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 102

amazing. your trip looks epic. i cannot wait. i'm amazed at how the canyon goes on and on and on from rim to river. thunder springs looks like an oasis.

how about the bass trail. any t.r.'s or pics for that?

tanya · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 5720 Location: St. George

snatch wrote: amazing. your trip looks epic. i cannot wait. i'm amazed at how the canyon goes on and on and on from rim to river. thunder springs looks like an oasis.

how about the bass trail. any t.r.'s or pics for that?

Bo and I headed to the Grand Canyon to do both, and we tried to do them both in one day.... but ran out of daylight. So we got to Thunder Springs and almost to Deer Creek. We will let you know about Deer Creek in a couple of weeks when we get back from our rafting trip. We should be hiking most of the 2 weeks we are gone.

Here is the Trail Report and photos for Thunder River....

http://www.zionnational-park.com/grand-canyon-thunder-river.htm

As was mentioned.. this is a hot hike in the summer!!! I liked camping on the Esplanade but there are other options. It's nice not to drag your gear back up that 2nd hump.

mroy · Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 229 Location: North Ogden

North Bass - I've heard there's water all the way from one of the rangers I've talked to on past trips. I don't have any plans to do it anytime soon, but since it's on the North Rim, and that's way closer than anything I want to do on the South....I probably will

South Bass - besides the $30 entrance fee to drive through a half mile of the reservation, and the distance you have to drive on dirt roads to get there, it's just remote, and the only water is from the Colorado. I plan on doing this next winter, then hopping on the Tonto and doing that long stretch over to Hermit and back out.

This site has always been a good source of beta for me:
http://www.kaibab.org/bc/gc_tr_nb.htm

Tanya, that's awesome you're doing a river trip. Someday my time for that will come :2thumbs:

tanya · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 5720 Location: St. George

mroy wrote: North Bass - I've heard there's water all the way from one of the rangers I've talked to on past trips. I don't have any plans to do it anytime soon, but since it's on the North Rim, and that's way closer than anything I want to do on the South....I probably will

South Bass - besides the $30 entrance fee to drive through a half mile of the reservation, and the distance you have to drive on dirt roads to get there, it's just remote, and the only water is from the Colorado. I plan on doing this next winter, then hopping on the Tonto and doing that long stretch over to Hermit and back out.

This site has always been a good source of beta for me:
http://www.kaibab.org/bc/gc_tr_nb.htm

Tanya, that's awesome you're doing a river trip. Someday my time for that will come :2thumbs:

Not just a river trip! But a River Trip with Larry Stevens and a bunch of Grand Canyon River expert types! It should be a blast!

tanya · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 5720 Location: St. George

Did you catch Bo's trip report? He just did this hike.

blarson · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 17

i tried this hike last year in the summer and trust me, you don't want to try it in the summer unless you plan on hiking at night. also keep in mind that from the rim to thunder spring is a lot further than it looks on a map, especially when it's over 110 degrees. on top of that, surprise valley has no shade at all, maybe a couple of bushes that are two feet tall and that's it.

tanya · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 5720 Location: St. George

blarson wrote: i tried this hike last year in the summer and trust me, you don't want to try it in the summer unless you plan on hiking at night. also keep in mind that from the rim to thunder spring is a lot further than it looks on a map, especially when it's over 110 degrees. on top of that, surprise valley has no shade at all, maybe a couple of bushes that are two feet tall and that's it.

Yes! Not a summer hike! Great point!

denaliguide · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 627 Location: new zealand/alaska

i did the trip from the top to thunder springs nearly 30 years ago. thinking about it i can't believe it was that long ago. it was a great trip! we went down to the river via tapeats creek and then upstream to dubendorf rapids and then back out the way we went in. it was a spring trip and i think we spent 7days. i thinka water cache is a good idea.

4 years ago i floated the grand and did a day hike across from thunder springs to deer creek and rejoined the trip at the river. this was a july trip and it was probably close to 120 degrees. way to hot, really. only good thing was that there was water at thunder on one side and at a spring at deer creek on the other. route finding was no problem and there is good camping reasonably close to both springs. be sure to take a headlamp so you can explore thunder cave.

I also did a solo trip that started at the south bass last year.it was called the royal arch loop. it is about a 50 mile drive west of the road to the south rim. the indians weren't manning the gate so i didn't have to pay the fee to cross the small corner of the res. the trip is allegedly one of most difficult of the loops on the south rim. probably should only be done by going down royal arch canyon and up the southbass. there is a 20 foot rappell that is unavoidable before you get to the river. the cliff could be climbed but it would be at least 5.7, maybe harder and unprotected. about 35 miles total. i would leave a water cache on the esplanade for the way out. be careful on this trip. lots of potential for a wreck and help is a long ways away.