Bogley

[Win]

I'm in the process of getting some equipment to go car camping. I'm wondering if a cot is a good idea without shelter over me. I guess my biggest concern would be rain/dampness. I'm thinking places like Toroweap, Bryce, areas around Escalante.

My main interest is to be on site for Sunset/Sunrise pictures. Most likely going solo.

Thanks,
Win

[goofball]

my choice has been a nice twin air mattress w/ battery operated pump. w/ down pillows. and lots of down comforter/sleeping bag covers. ahhhhhhhh... w/ a tarp for "in case of... " protection. that or a tent w/ a thermarest if rain comes.

[Scott Card]

This time of year I am a definitely a tent guy. I like to keep the dew/ frost off my stuff and have a warm wind free place to sleep and change in. Big tent, big air mattress (like goofball said) but with a thick foam pad on top of the air mattress (good as a Select Comfort), warm sleeping bag and pillow from home. Its better than my bed at home. I don't care for noisy tarps particularly if the wind picks up. Don't forget the alarm. I have slept soundly through too many sunrises 'cause I was buried in my sleeping bag, all warm and comfortable. I even have a tent heater for changing purposes. I'm a truly a wuss when car camping. Heck, why rough it when you don't have to carry it anywhere? I never understood why people live like they are backpacking, eating dehydrated food, sleeping on the dirt, when they are camped 10 feet from the car. Bring the kitchen sink if you have room! :haha:

[tanya]

Win wrote: I'm in the process of getting some equipment to go car camping. I'm wondering if a cot is a good idea without shelter over me. I guess my biggest concern would be rain/dampness. I'm thinking places like Toroweap, Bryce, areas around Escalante.

My main interest is to be on site for Sunset/Sunrise pictures. Most likely going solo.

Thanks,
Win

Do you have winter or summer camping in mind?

Camping at Toroweap is one of the best places ever! Its amazing there and you can drive almost to the rim! :2thumbs: Last time I was there camp fires were allowed too. Camping at the North Rim Campground is free in the winter (or was last year when I was there) if thats on your list too.

Granted I dont usually car camp (usually backpack) but I have had the luxury of a car a few times. I like to take as little as possible because I don't like to put stuff away when I get home. If you have a vehicle you can sleep and stretch out in thats ideal ~imho~ .... If not then just make sure what's beneath you is soft and that you are warm so you sleep well.

Any cover will stop the rain, but another wetness concern is dew. To reduce condensation use an overtent cover or second layer. If you have not bought a tent yet, look into something like an integrated condensation curtain.

[Win]

Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win

[Alex]

If you are doing a solo camping, may I recommend this tent:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47687600&parent_category_rn=40003461

I have gone through about 5 tents in the last 4 years. I do a lot of backpacking and car camping. I went through big tents to bivvy sacks and finally settled down on REI Quater Dome. I love the ventilation of the tent, the room inside and the double door. Also the privacy bottom lining is great for wind protection when you are laying down. The rain cover is great and I have never gotten wet in it.

The tent is durable enough for my 3 year old to try to break it but it's also light enough to haul backpacking with me. You can find it locally at REI and you can check it out before you buy it.

A twin mattress will fit nicely inside.

Some other gear I may recommend is a decent stove. Either a Coleman two burner propane stove or a JetBoil. I actually have both and take both of them car camping with me. I use the Coleman for cooking breakfasts and sometimes dinners and JetBoil to boil water for coffee/tea.

[stefan]

Scott Card wrote: I even have a tent heater for changing purposes. I'm a truly a wuss when car camping. Heck, why rough it when you don't have to carry it anywhere? I never understood why people live like they are backpacking, eating dehydrated food, sleeping on the dirt, when they are camped 10 feet from the car. Bring the kitchen sink if you have room! :haha:

tent heater? that's new, never heard of one. is it safe with all that nylon?


so, i can be one of those people you're talking about scott. there are a couple of reasons why. you're thinking practically, but a natural and straightforward argument is "to get away from it all", including your conveniences and amenities of home.

now i will CERTAINLY agree with you about the dehydrated food ... that's for backpacking OR if you are away from stores for long periods of time and want to mix it up between canned/boxed/whatever. but for short getaways ... yeah, eat the prehydrated stuff.

another reason is to "keep it simple." when i go out camping/backpacking i just can't stand a ton of stuff being around, nor dealing with it. less is more.

as far as sleeping on the ground ... well, i love it. for the longest time i used NOTHING. no sleeping pad, cause i never wanted to carry one around backpacking (unless sleeping on snow). i just extened it to car camping. however, nowadays half the time i am car camping, i bring a soft flannel sleeping bag to place my sleeping bag on for comfort. this has essentially been as far as i would go.

i will admit, that within the past year, while backpacking or sleeping on the ground, for the first time i have noticed the pressure on my back/butt/hips. pressure to the point of starting to become uncomfortable. and currently i am considering the possibility of getting a thermarest of some sort. but for the past very long time have been very happy and comfortable using nothing at all. too bad, one large thing less to deal with!

i couldn't tell if you were joking or not, but i thought i'd offer some views from the otherside

i guess as long as it doesn't make noise and ruin other folks' experience, bring it along.

[Alex]

Local company http://www.tentheater.com/ They are located at I-215 and I-15 south intersection.

[tanya]

Win wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win


Since you live in T-ville --- you want to go all the places I do. Zion of course rules!!!! :2thumbs:

Winter backpacking is nice on the Southwest Trails in Zion like Scoggins and Chinle. Just make sure to go when the ground is dry. Even the day after a storm and the ground dries its tough on the feet. I hiked in there when there was big dry foot holes and just about every part of my feet were covered in blisters when we were done.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/snow.htm

I love Toroweap, but Lava Falls was not my favorite hike. Its the only thing I have done I don't want to repeat, but it is a so called trail to the Colorado River.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/toroweap.htm

I would opt for hiking around the rim rather than doing Lava Falls.

The North Rim itself has some backpacking. Just get out there before December. Highway 67 has been closing sometime in the first half of December the last couple of years. If you want some longer backpacks look at the Esplanade and Thunder River.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/gbpack.htm

My all time favorite Winter backpack is South Canyon.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/south-canyon-grand-canyon.htm

The GSEMN is good too until it snows. Then the roads become difficult. One of my favorite is Bull Valley Gorge to Sheep Creek and out Willis Creek.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/gsbpack.htm

[accadacca]

We rode motorcycles from St. George to Toroweap last year. :2thumbs:

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=328

[tanya]

Win wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win


For gear just drop by at the Outdoor Outlet in St. George and tell Bo (my hiking partner) that I sent you. He will treat you well. He has managed the store for 22 years and knows gear well. Just tell him what you need and he will set you up.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/hiking-backpacking-equipment.htm

[Win]

Nice TR on going to Toroweap. I was there a month ago and went out thru St George and back thru East Zion. Lots of driving but well worth it. That Lava Falls hike is just too demanding for this old man! Sorry to hear it wasn't a favorite, seems like alot of work.

Has eveyone done the Namoweap Petroglyph site? Alot of neat rock art and a good side trip from a day at Toroweap.

Thanks for the gear tips, I was considering that tent, like the idea of it being free standing. I'm not sure about a tent heater, I think I'd over sleep, too.

I've hiked out Coal Pits and Scoggins and know what you mean about mud and dried footsteps. That area took a beating during that deluge a month or so ago. I like the Dalton wash hike too this time of year.

I've been to the Outdoor Outlet and now will make sure to go back. Maybe even this afternoon. Thanks for the tip.


Win

[Scott Card]

stefan wrote:

tent heater? that's new, never heard of one. is it safe with all that nylon?



Yes, tent heater.... Big Buddy Heater complete with low oxygen shut-off. Toasty!

stefan wrote:
so, i can be one of those people you're talking about scott. there are a couple of reasons why. you're thinking practically, but a natural and straightforward argument is "to get away from it all", including your conveniences and amenities of home.

i couldn't tell if you were joking or not, but i thought i'd offer some views from the otherside

i guess as long as it doesn't make noise and ruin other folks' experience, bring it along.

I respect the argument and your thoughts. If you want to sleep on the ground, more power to you. Keeping it simple has its advantages but if I am going to set up for more than a day, I like a few comforts. Admittedly, my tent is a little fussy to set up but it is huge and a four season tent. But the air mattress and foam pad thing is about 3 minutes to set up and a very comfortable combination. Plus, I don't know how old you are but my bones ain't liking hard dirt. Also, an auto accident screwed up my neck so I need a pillow of sorts. Now, lest you think me more of a red neck car camper than I am, you should see the cut down version I am about to take into Heaps tomorrow. Sleeping system (pad, bag and bivy sac) under five pounds. Cooking kit including gas canister fits into a 2 cup -Cup. (snow peak iddy biddy stove, titanium cup and small canister - less than 8 oz.) Dehydrated food...etc. I did not skimp on my wet suit however. My harness and wetsuit constitute about 75% of my pack weight. When I need to go light, I do. When I am next to my truck, it takes only minutes to toss the stuff in the truck and put it away when I get home. So why not?

Getting away from it all for me is leaving the job, the phone, the computer, and every form of media behind. I don't bring music - I like the time to think and enjoy the sounds of my surroundings and yakking it up with those I am with. I was joking about the kitchen sink but I do like good food and I love the dutch oven or grill rack for steak and griddle for a hearty breakfast particularly this time of year. I am a guy who doesn't mind the fuss of setting up a camp. It is different from my routine and for this desk jockey, it is fun. If I got out more I may think differently. I have tossed the bag out prior to a canyon hike where we arrived late and needed an early start but if I am setting a base camp and taking off from there, I set up camp. A good night sleep and a good meal add a lot to the quality of a trip for me. Again, I guess I am getting old and like a few more comforts than when I was a scout sleeping on the dirt.

Stephan, you can always share my fire and my food. I may even let you use my garlic press! But really, minimalist camping has its advantages particularly when on the go and moving camp every day. But if not.....

One final story... I was at a camp (won't name locations or names) but one nice fellow was extremely proud of his little flat rock upon which he was cooking his polish sausage. He was fussing with placing little sticks under it to keep the fire going while the sausage smoldered on top of it. My partners and I had just finished a dutch oven meal of teriaki chicken, steamed veggies and cheese sauce, and three kinds of cake. Felt a little bad for this fellow cooking on a rock. Can I cook on a rock? yes, but why? We did share our cakes with him and the others present.

Bottom line, if it improves my sleep and meals, I am taking it.

[Scott Card]

Back on topic a little more, one of the best places I have been for a sunset was the ridge between Alcatraz canyon and Larry canyon in the Robbers Roost area. I don't know the current condition of the roads but that info should be available soon from some going out this weekend if I read the posts correctly. First night I was there, I stopped in my tracks for about a half an hour to watch it happen. Spectacular, particularly looking east.

[stefan]

Scott Card wrote: Plus, I don't know how old you are but my bones ain't liking hard dirt. Also, an auto accident screwed up my neck so I need a pillow of sorts. Now, lest you think me more of a red neck car camper than I am, you should see the cut down version I am about to take into Heaps tomorrow.

well, i am 31. as i mentioned, i have been realizing this year that sleeping on the rocks is uncomfortable for the first time. i very much imagine that it's my age, and it's likely only going increase. so i'll probably get a sleeping pad. that's too bad about the accident.

redneck car camper ... no. and i was not speaking from higher moral ground i just figure whatever floats your boat. my reason is to do without what i can. but i am sure i'll change my feelings over the years. already i have about the pad.

as i said good food is a must. i even learned from some folks in alaska that you SHOULD eat gourmet while backpacking, even if gone for a week.
Quote:
Sleeping system (pad, bag and bivy sac) under five pounds. Cooking kit including gas canister fits into a 2 cup -Cup. (snow peak iddy biddy stove, titanium cup and small canister - less than 8 oz.)
fantastic ... looking forward to the report/photos. have a wonderful trip.
Quote:
When I am next to my truck, it takes only minutes to toss the stuff in the truck and put it away when I get home. So why not?

sure! i understand completely. you just asked why would anyone think otherwise ... i responded, that's all.
Quote:
SteFan, you can always share my fire and my food. I may even let you use my garlic press!

thanks for the invite, that'd be nice sometime! but i warn you i do have food restrictions, but AM a big fan of garlic to be sure.

sorry for getting off track </tangent>