Bogley

[James_B_Wads2000]

rock_ski_cowboy wrote: After recieving several reprimands for my pictures without helmets from my latest adventures, I'm tempted to get pissy-- it should be known that I am an indendendent, prideful dude and I hate unsolicited advice or censure, however sage it may be (just ask my dad)-- but I won't, because you have a point. However, folks should realize that wearing a helmet is a personal choice and you shouldn't feel obligated to tell everyone without one how wrong they are and consider them an idiot as long as they are making an informed adult decision not to. Be warned, what started as a simple post has turned into quite the blathering exposition.

I know I should wear a helmet and I actually usually do. However, of all the canyoneering I did this week, the only canyon I wore one for was Mindbender. Now y'all are making me feel guilty, but honestly, before I started reading these egroups, I've always done a lot of scrambling, climbing, and exploring that has exposed me to the same dangers of canyoneering and never given helmets a second thought.

Why I didn't wear a helmet on Bluejohn? Given the large amounts of hiking in the sun that day (12 miles), and the very short amounts of technical slot we were going to do, I decided to excercise my freedom not to wear a helmet on this one, and took my favorite hat. ;0 I consider this to probably be among the least technical of the class 3 canyons I've done, and I chose to leave the extra weight at home. Personally, I assess the canyon before I go in and decide wether or not I'm taking the helmet. Honestly, about 80% of the time I do. I imagine most people do this, but they just have different thresholds of when they put the helmet on. Do you wear a helmet in the Subway? Orderville? The Narrows? The point: YMMV. Everyone has a personal preference, and unless you are a guide book author-- in which case you're justly obligated to tell everyone to use helmets-- you're preference shouldn't be the standard by which you judge others. I know for a fact that there are very skilled canyoneers out there that rarely or never use helmets. I bet that really bugs some of you, but I don't think it should. That would be like me getting bugged by all of you that decide to destroy your livers and lungs with the popular addictions of today... I'd rather just let it go, and chances are I won't be lecturing you about the dangers of doing X potentially harmful thing any time soon because you already know.


I see helmets in the same way that I see seatbelts, it could be the difference between life and death or the difference between serious injury and no injury at all. An example why helmets are important:

http://www.climb-utah.com/Powell/leprechaun2.htm

After taking some newbies sans helmets on some easy technical routes this weekend in Moab (feeling guilty about that too), I told them if they ever plan on going canyoneering again, the first thing they should buy is a helmet. I imagine the one or two that are now considering it as a potential hobby will take my advice.


Benny R

Dude… You read me all wrong. I know it is a personal choice and I meant no disrespect to you and your freewill. Your right, everybody has there own personal thresholds to how much risk they are willing to take, and nobody has the right to tell someone else how much is too much.

I am sorry man. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. I can see how my innocent run of the mouth could piss you off. But your reply assumed I was making some judgment on your skills. I will have you know I am the worst canyoneer I know and I would never assume to be better than someone else.

I actually feel like quite the hypocrite. Last year I ran into some people when I was going down Pine Creek for the first time and these guys felt the need to tell me how to do the first downclimb. He went on to say that if I wasn’t able to do it their way then, “you shouldn’t be in this canyon.” I can honestly say I felt the same way I imagined you did reading my post.

The guys I go canyoneering with are a bunch of older climbers/mountaineers in there 30’s and 40’s. Climbers and older people tend to be more cautious. They have witnessed climbing accidents first hand. I guess there cautious nature rubbed off on me. That and the fact I am very clumsy and tend to fall over a lot.

JBW

[rockgremlin]

:lol: You're funny!

Unfortunately, this sport is full of eletists, who like to tell people exactly where to go and exactly how to get there. They've got that "my way or the highway" mentality, and are never wrong. That guy in Pine Creek you ran into was way out of line. If I were you I would've waited until he was well below me, then started throwing rocks at him and saying crap like "If you can't dodge these rocks, you don't belong in this sport!" :twisted: :twisted:

[Sombeech]

Yeah, I can see the value in helmets. The only helmet I have at the moment is my bike helmet (which has saved my skull a few times). :wallbash:

I remember the Seinfeld bit about helmets. It goes something like this:
What I don't understand, is the helmet law. Instead of making it illegal to participate in skull cracking activities, they invented helmets, and the helmet law so that we may freely continue with our skull cracking activities. :jump_nutt:

I've thought about buying a helmet for wakeboarding also. I hope to get involved enough with canyoneering so that I would be able to put a helmet to good use.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

No worries and no offense taken. This is honestly the first trip i've taken since I bought my helmets without them. I'm going to be working near Zion's this summer, maybe we could meet up and i could help you with that first downclimb on pine creek :lol:

[rockgremlin]

So you got the job eh? You lucky dog!! I'm jealous! :angryfire: Let me know if/when you're doing Heaps. Maybe we can hook up.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Maybe just overconfident thinking,nothings for sure, but honestly, how could they not want me ;)

[ratagonia]

My ears been burnin' ----

Personal choice? You an orphan? Nobody cares about you? Canyoneer where nobody would ever find you or have to clean up after you? Always go alone?

I became a helmet crusader after slipping on a very simple downclimb. No helmet. Just a little slip, but the way it was set up, I would have SLAMMED my head into the wall if I had not fortunately got my hand onto it just before it hit. Woulda been bad. And such a simple little downclimb.

Canyons are slippery. Bad rock. Holds break. Rocks fall from above. Dangerous place. Wearing a helmet cuts the danger.

And its not for you. Its for your family. Brain injuries are THE WORST. Terry Shiavo? Brain injury. I had two friends brain-injured in the last three years - put their lives on hold for 12 months and 6 months. Skiing and 'safe' sport climbing. New fathers both. Bad stuff. Wear a helmet.

Tom Jones

[rock_ski_cowboy]

You have a good point.

My point, which isn't so good, and actually helps make your point is:

You can't make me. And if I potentially create a tragedy for my family and you and everyone else to deal with, it is still my perrogative. If I feel like going canyoneering with nothing but my speedo on, for heck's sake, I'm going to, and I'm going to enjoy it and to heck with y'all!

Except for when I get graciously invited to Tom's canyon festivals and its mandatory thar.

Emperor dear,

Someone has to lead the rebellion ;)

Bean

[rockgremlin]

BTW, when is his canyon rendevous this year, and is it by invitation only?

[rock_ski_cowboy]

rockgremlin wrote: BTW, when is his canyon rendevous this year, and is it by invitation only?
its this weekend, and it seems like everyone on the canyons group was invited back in february some time, kind of a first come first serve basis.

[Wasatch]

Glad I had my helmet on last year in Echo. Was doing a downclimb, near the end I slipped and banged my head against the wall. One friend up front asked what was that! They don't call it Echo for nothing. If I had not a helmet, my head would have been split open for sure. Would not have been a pretty sight. Yes, it's your choice, but if your with other's, it's we that have to deal with it at that moment.

[accadacca]

A few co-workers at my office have been salivating at the thought of the new Star Wars movie. What does that have to do with Helmet chat? Well I found a cool site with some helmets. Can you imagine the looks you'd get in a slot canyon with one of these. :eek7:
Ok now I agree that it is your prerogative and we can't force you to wear one. But this would be total rebellion!!!! :naughty:

I get to be Vader......... :lol8:

Check out the site: http://www.starwarshelmets.com/

[accadacca]

Doing a google search I found a few guys that do this very thing. They call it Star Wars Canyoneering! :haha:

Check it out!

[rockgremlin]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Very nice!

Or maybe if I had a fro :afro: it could also pass as a helmet.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Wow. Dats some funny stuff. Only wish I'd thought of it first!