Bogley

[Sombeech]

Here it is, let us have it!! This thread is inspired from a discussion that started in the "Who are you?" thread, that was kind of hijacked. :haha:

Feel free to give us your opinions on Firearms. :assault: :2gun: :rifle: :2guns: Are you against them? Do you like them? Fill us in on some viewpoints we may not have seen before.

State your opinion, and share your feelings, weak or STRONG. :bs: Just keep it PG-13. Thanks.

[Sombeech]

TreeHugger wrote: Here's some statistics for ya: (sorry for the thread hijack, but I'm only replying to the original hijack)

* Sixteen children are killed with guns each day in the US.
* Every six hours, an American between 10 & 19 years ol commits suicide with a gun.
* More people between the ages of 15 and 24 are killed with guns than by all natural causes combined.
* Guns ar the number one killer of African American men ages 15 - 34.
* Gunshot wounds are the number two killer of all Americans ages 10 to 34.
* A recent survey found that more than 1.2 million elementary school age latchkey children hav household access to a gun.
* A recent survey found that 18% of suburban high school students own a handgun.
* Another survey found that 35% of hight school students from high crime areas carry guns regularly.
* The gun you own for self protection is 43 times more likely to kill an innocent acquaintance than to be used for self-defense.
* In one recent year, there were 18 handgun homicides in Australia, 33 in Great Britain, 36 in Sweden, 60 in Japan, 97 in Switzerland, 128 in Canada and 13,495 in the United States.

Interesting points. I have a tendancy to not believe statistics of any topic at first, but I don't think these are that far out of range.

Superriffic S* wrote: yeah, yeah, yeah... because the United States has a high number in homicides committed with guns does not mean that we are the leading country in homicides. If someone wants to kill somebody else they will, period. I love the mentality that somehow when you take away the gun then the problem or the crime will go away. It just so happens that the capitol of our great country that indeed has the most strict of gun laws in it, has the highest crime rate in the counrty. Huh, I guess all those laws didn't amount to a hill of beans in D.C., eh?
Here is an article about the knife crime rate in Britain and how they had somewhere between 16,000 to 19,000 knife incidents in 2003. I guess it doesn't matter whether you have a gun, knife or anything else... if you want to kill or harm someone you will find a way to do it.

http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CA825.htm

On the other hand, this is a good point also. I've lived in the British Isles for a couple of years, and went back again. I have seen the "knife" culture there as well.
There was/is plenty of crime to go around over there, and guns were hardly mentioned. There have been many bank robberies at knifepoint.

[accadacca]

I am pretty neutral on this. But I voted "I'll never give up my guns!!" Not quite as liberal as that statement or this picture. :haha: But I do value FREEDOM and feel that we all benefit from living in this country. I try to respect the freedoms that others choose.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Heres a good case study for you on gun bans:

Guns are absolutely and completely illegal in Mexico (surprising considering it is a country where pretty much everything else IS legal). Virtually none of the general public owns them. The only people that own them are Policemen and Criminals who get them regardless of legality.

What is the situation like? Corrupt policemen and criminals who are very confident and malicious.

I have a friend who was on a bus in northern mexico that got Hijacked and robbed. Would you feel safe hijacking a GreyHound?

Is the crime rate in Mexico lower? Are Mexican cities safter places to live than American cities? Would society be safer if we took guns away from the general public and then spent millions trying in futulity to take them away from the criminals? Do I need to answer these questions?

[rockgremlin]

Good points about Mexico. I spent a few years down in Ecuador on a mission, and it was a pretty common sight to see a guy murdered on the front page of every newspaper, every day. The weapon of choice used in the homicide? A MACHETE!! In Latin America, the Machete is one of the most commonly used murder weapons.

If people are gonna commit murder, they'll find a way -- guns or no guns.

[JamisJockey]

Quote:
* Every six hours, an American between 10 & 19 years ol commits suicide with a gun.
Okay, this is the problem with this kind of statistic. It leaves nothing to comparasion. How many kids kill them selves with a drug overdose? How often does that happen?

Quote: * More people between the ages of 15 and 24 are killed with guns than by all natural causes combined.

Yet another bullsh*t statsitic. How many 15-24 year olds do you know that have died of natural causes? Most 15-24 year olds die from motor vehicle accidents.

Quote: * Gunshot wounds are the number two killer of all Americans ages 10 to 34.
The CDC doesn't break it down into this age group. Obviously, someone is twisting the statistics to prove a point.

Quote: * A recent survey found that more than 1.2 million elementary school age latchkey children hav household access to a gun.
how many latchkey children have access to a pool or chemicals? Both kill more than guns.
Quote: * A recent survey found that 18% of suburban high school students own a handgun.
* Another survey found that 35% of hight school students from high crime areas carry guns regularly.
How many of those 18% resonpsibly own a firearm? Live in rural areas where they grow upw ith them.
Quote: * The gun you own for self protection is 43 times more likely to kill an innocent acquaintance than to be used for self-defense.
Probably because people who don't own guns don't shoot people. Accidentially or not. No mention of how many crimes like home invasions are stopped by firearms.

Quote: * In one recent year, there were 18 handgun homicides in Australia, 33 in Great Britain, 36 in Sweden, 60 in Japan, 97 in Switzerland, 128 in Canada and 13,495 in the United States.
And yet, all of those countries with the exception of Great Britian have higher suicide rates per capita. So people there still find a way, and in greater per capita numbers then the USA.

[JamisJockey]

Rock_ski
Very good point. I'd bet money Mexico has a higher muder and crime rate.....

[JamisJockey]

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.0/GunFacts4-0-Screen.pdf

Good info there, with government facts and stats to back it up.

[James_B_Wads2000]

rock_ski_cowboy wrote: Heres a good case study for you on gun bans:

Guns are absolutely and completely illegal in Mexico ... Are Mexican cities safer places to live than American cities?

Wow, your right! Mexico is a piece of sh*t country. That means guns are cool. I’m glad to see that BYU-rose-colored-glasses-education hard at work. By the same "logic" I could tell you that crime rates are lower and the criminal conviction rate is much higher in a country like Japan, were they also ban guns. But wait, I am confused. That would mean guns are bad.

The bottom line is: guns are for pu**ies. Those who love their guns will lie, skew facts and use "logic" to justify themselves. Those who hate guns will lie, skew facts and use "logic" to justify themselves.

James

[JamisJockey]

You're funny. Guns are just a tool. Just like a car, a chainsaw, or a pocket knife.
You can call me a pu**y all you want. I've been called worse in the last 24 hours.

[TreeHugger]

JamisJockey wrote: Quote:
* Every six hours, an American between 10 & 19 years ol commits suicide with a gun.
Okay, this is the problem with this kind of statistic. It leaves nothing to comparasion. How many kids kill them selves with a drug overdose? How often does that happen?

Quote: * More people between the ages of 15 and 24 are killed with guns than by all natural causes combined.

Yet another bullshit statsitic. How many 15-24 year olds do you know that have died of natural causes? Most 15-24 year olds die from motor vehicle accidents.

Quote: * Gunshot wounds are the number two killer of all Americans ages 10 to 34.
The CDC doesn't break it down into this age group. Obviously, someone is twisting the statistics to prove a point.

Quote: * A recent survey found that more than 1.2 million elementary school age latchkey children hav household access to a gun.
how many latchkey children have access to a pool or chemicals? Both kill more than guns.
Quote: * A recent survey found that 18% of suburban high school students own a handgun.
* Another survey found that 35% of hight school students from high crime areas carry guns regularly.
How many of those 18% resonpsibly own a firearm? Live in rural areas where they grow upw ith them.
Quote: * The gun you own for self protection is 43 times more likely to kill an innocent acquaintance than to be used for self-defense.
Probably because people who don't own guns don't shoot people. Accidentially or not. No mention of how many crimes like home invasions are stopped by firearms.

Quote: * In one recent year, there were 18 handgun homicides in Australia, 33 in Great Britain, 36 in Sweden, 60 in Japan, 97 in Switzerland, 128 in Canada and 13,495 in the United States.
And yet, all of those countries with the exception of Great Britian have higher suicide rates per capita. So people there still find a way, and in greater per capita numbers then the USA.

OK, once again, we dont need to look at other comparisons because the topic/debate is about GUNS. Drownings, stabbings, chemicals, suicides, car accicidents are irrelevant. We're looking at the impact of GUNS on society. Your arguments are just silly, in my opinion. You totally have the right to have your lovely little guns, but that doesnt make you automatically right - there are a lot of people being hurt and killed, kids included, accidentally or needlessly, by guns, period. Do the advantages of having guns outweigh the risk? In your opinion, yes, in my opinion, I dont think so. This is the kind of argument that will never be settled, people feel way too strongly on this issue to ever admit there is anything flawed in their thinking... it's really not worth debating any longer to me....

continue on without me...

[icthys]

I don't currently own a gun. When I did it was a shotgun. I would like to own a rifle, once again for hunting purposes.

I don't see the purpose in owning a gun for anything other than hunting. I'm fine if others want to own one for protection or whatever. I don't see how owning a gun will really keep you any safer. You would need to have that gun on you 24/7 to even have a chance of it making you safer. Most people aren't going to have the time to reach for it if attacked. Think about it. If I'm going to be raped (I hope it's that Sam chick on Las Vegas) she would take me from behind slap me upside the head, and other things. I'm not going to be able to get that gun out and use it in an effective manner while scuffling with her, and there is the chance she'd grab it and shoot me with it. I'd rather take a course on how to defend myself by physical means once someone jumps me.

I just don't believe guns are the answer for protection, doesn't make any sense other than a sense of safety. Guns keeping me safe is like George W. keeping me safe with his homeland security BS, going to war with Iraq, and 15,000 check points at the airport.

[JamisJockey]

Ha! How can you say something is needlessly dangerous without a comparison? Hypothesis cannot be formed without a control group.


Oh, and James, I forgot to add:
I am a pu**y. I'm 5'3. I'm 155lbs. I've got kids. I am not going toe to toe with some gang member who wants to carjack my car with my kids in it. I'm going to end any situation I can't get out of in a very quick, violent manner. Especially when it comes to the protection of my wife, children, or home.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

James_B_Wads2000 wrote: Wow, your right! Mexico is a piece of sh*t country. That means guns are cool. I’m glad to see that BYU-rose-colored-glasses-education hard at work.

Hmmm. I'm not even mad, I'm actually impressed. I don't know if you just try to come off as an absolute dick or if you are one, or maybe you're just trying to be funny. Either way I'm really not offended, and I realize you probably feel strongly about the following two points: guns are for p***sies, and all BYU students view the world through rose-colored glasses. Hmmm. Well by that logic I'm a pu**y with some rose-colored glasses.. Thats your opinion and you're entitled it. It seems sort of closed-minded to me (isn't that what rose colored glasses are all about?) but thats cool, I realize there are a lot of closed-minded jerks out there, maybe you just happen to be one of them. I'm sorry if such is the case, but I hope it isn't. If its not, you should think about the impression you're giving people when you type personally inflammatory things like that. It may be the internet, but its still society.

I actually like Mexico, I agree with you that my logic was flawed and there are clearly other factors at play besides guns there that contribute to its crime rate.

In this case, there are clearly strong opinions, statistics that can be used by both sides, and no clear answers. Personally, I like guns because I find them to be an enjoyable form of recreation, but I wouldn't put them on my top 10 list. Personally, you don't like guns. I'm cool with that.

[price1869]

Oh oh oh , I just can't resist any more. You anti-gun nut liberals just kill me. Can we please just ban cell phones. I've had a lot more people almost kill me with their cars + a pleasant cell phone conversation than with guns. Accidental or not. Can the liberals just cede from the union, and try to fight off the french pussies when they come to take them over? Ha ha :roflol: You really shouldn't take a stance on anything though. You might be offending someone. Oh right, as long as its just white males, they don't count. They need to be repaying all of the wrongs that their ancestors did to a bunch of people who couldn't stand up for themselves. Isn't evolution a generally accepted liberal principle, perhaps Darwinism? Survival of the fittest? Well, I'm the fittest and I'm going to kick your ass. How do you feel about that?

BTW - I'm very conservative, but I get along fine with my lib friends. Just get over it. There is a right and a wrong, and you're not right just because you think you are or believe some way. Get over it. Quit being offended by one thing and doing something completely offensive in return. Toughen up, take some personal responsibility, and live your life.

anyone want to read my "why I voted for Bush" blog????