Bogley

Scott P · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1760

Thought someone here might enjoy this:

http://www.summitpost.org/list/181438/Utah-Some-Unknown-Classics-.html

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7806 Location: Local Bordello

Scott Patterson wrote: Some of the Lesser Known Classics

Not to split hairs or anything..... but if its not well known it is not a classic..... it might be and outstanding hike/climb/canyon..... but it is not a classic....

Main Entry: 1clas·sic

Pronunciation: 'kla-sik

Function: adjective

Etymology: French or Latin; French classique, from Latin classicus of the highest class of Roman citizens, of the first rank, from classis

1 a : serving as a standard of excellence : of recognized value b : TRADITIONAL, ENDURING c : characterized by simple tailored lines in fashion year after year <a classic suit>

2 : of or relating to the ancient Greeks and Romans or their culture : CLASSICAL

3 a : historically memorable b : noted because of special literary or historical associations <Paris is the classic refuge of expatriates>

4 a : AUTHENTIC, AUTHORITATIVE b : TYPICAL <a classic example of chicanery>

5 capitalized : of or relating to the period of highest development of Mesoamerican and especially Mayan culture about A.D. 300-900

:blahblah:

rockgremlin · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 4071 Location: Hotel California

WOW!! You put Aron Ralston to Shame!! :haha:

Thanks for the link. Some real good stuff there.

The images are awesome too. I really liked this one:

Scott P · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1760

Quote: Not to split hairs or anything..... but if its not well known it is not a classic..... it might be and outstanding hike/climb/canyon..... but it is not a classic....

Hence my "Unknown Classics" in quotation marks. A different kind of "classic", and the reason I wrote the below:

Most of the time, the "Classics" are classics only because they are well known and easy to get to. [/quote]

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7806 Location: Local Bordello

I have to disagree on the "easy to get" to part of your classics.... In the climbing world history or literature plays the biggest part of what is considered a classic......

A classic is a route that everyone would like to have on their resume.

I would say that Kolob and then Bluejohn became instant classics the minute they make the front page of the morning news with death and disater. Both are good canyons but its the history that pushes them to classic standings.

Scott P · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1760

Quote: I have to disagree on the "easy to get" to part of your classics.... In the climbing world history or literature plays the biggest part of what is considered a classic......

A classic is a route that everyone would like to have on their resume.

I would still say that most of the classics are known as such, partially because they are easy to get to. Using the Bluejohn example, I still doubt that it would be considered a classic, if you had to backpack three days to get to it, but I could be wrong.

Stone Donkey is somewhat similar in appearance to Trail Canyon, but a bit shorter. Trail Canyon is known as a classic, but Stone Donkey is not. Stone Donkey requires about 18 miles of "slogging" (plus a long 4wd road) to get there and back. Thus, it doesn't seem like it would become a classic any time soon, even though it is now in a guidebook.

Would you agree somewhat?

stefan · Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4656 Location: somewhere

Okay okay, you guys. Usually i am not too worried about the language
people use when talking about things, but i suppose it's different when you
write, in particular, on a website. The meaning of words is important, and
in some sense i agree with shane, one should try to be accurate when
possible, especially when one is making a strong statement, which you
seem to be doing, scott. The hikes look very interesting and I'll definitely
look into doing some of them. Have been thinking about Stone Donkey for
some time now too. Thanks for the highlighting.

I guess the phrasing 'unknown classics' *might* also suggests that maybe
they are classics, but only to a select group, hence relatively unknown.
But seemingly this also is not necessarily true (i can't say for sure though).

Now i am not trying to harp on you or nothing, just got curious about it and
was thinking that probably the easiest way to appease shane *might* be
to use the phrasing

"SHOULD-BE Classics"

or something equivalent. I think this is precisely what you are intending to
say anyway. That is, they are NOT classics, but you feel they SHOULD BE.
And you appease shane as well, since you aren't claiming that they are at
the moment(but i don't want to speak for you here).

Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching
it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's
always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.

rockgremlin · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 4071 Location: Hotel California

Oh BROTHER!

:roll: :roll: Way to quibble over semantics Shane! :roll: :roll:

You can see his point, right? Why give him grief over his choice of words?

Scott P · Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1760

Quote: I guess the phrasing 'unknown classics' *might* also suggests that maybe they are classics, but only to a select group, hence relatively unknown. But seemingly this also is not necessarily true (i can't say for sure though).

I am a select group, and they are well known to me. :nod:

Anyway, "unknown classics" is my own phrase. Different people can call it whatever they want. I have my own phrases I use. People always look at me funny since I use the phrase "eating a squirrel" so much.

Quote: Now i am not trying to harp on you or nothing, just got curious about it and was thinking that probably the easiest way to appease shane *might* be to use the phrasing

"SHOULD-BE Classics"

Since I am friends with Shane we are just discussing. I don't like "should be classics", because it implies should be crowded. Right now, these areas are not, but they may become so in the future, and that's fine. Of course, then I will have to post more "unknown classics". I just posted a few that could be enjoyed in the near future.

Quote: Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.

Round Valley Draw is cool. You could come from the upper end, and it would be nice. We came from Rock Springs Point, because it was both the shortest way, and new territory for me in the 1990's. Very scenic and with big views and (coug, cough), slogging. But I enjoy slogging in a scenic and little known area. Either way, you will enjoy it if you like scenic approaches. PS, if you look around, there are some more good hidden canyons in the area.

stefan · Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4656 Location: somewhere

Scott Patterson wrote:

Anyway, "unknown classics" is my own phrase. Different people can call it whatever they want. I have my own phrases I use.

Fair enough.

Quote: Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.

Round Valley Draw is cool. You could come from the upper end, and it would be nice. We came from Rock Springs Point, because it was both the shortest way, and new territory for me in the 1990's. Very scenic and with big views and (coug, cough), slogging. But I enjoy slogging in a scenic and little known area. Either way, you will enjoy it if you like scenic approaches. PS, if you look around, there are some more good hidden canyons in the area.[/quote]

I have done Round Valley, and I agree, cool! One possibility I was thinking about was entering hackberry in the slot just down canyon from Round Valley Draw which MK describes, Booker cyn if i remember correctly. Then amongst other exploring, doing Stone Donkey slot as well, and exiting lower hackberry.

hmm but i do love scenic approaches....

rock_ski_cowboy · Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 442

I find myself calling stuff classic all the time that doesn't necessarily conform to traditional definitions of the word. For example, someone accidentally says or does something really embarassing, stupid, unexpected, or funny and I find myself always saying "That was classic." Like Scott, I do the the same thing with amazing canyons or hikes-- calling them classic even if I know that only a handful of people have done them and only recently.

Words evolve (and the turns they take are quite interesting and illogical some times!). There is even a branch of study of the evolution of words called etymology. Fascinating stuff.

It may be a misuse of the word, or maybe an unconventional use of it, but I know Scott and I aren't the only ones (mis)using it to mean:

classic (adj.): something inspiring, memorable,and/or of exceptional beauty and quality.

One of my favorite uses of the word classic, from Poe's poem Helen:
"Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
Thy Naiad airs have brought me home "

Now I'm rambling

stefan · Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4656 Location: somewhere

Okay i just have to do this, at the risk of being derided by the rock-ski-cowboy.....

scott how about

Not Classics

:roll_lol:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7806 Location: Local Bordello

I don't mean to bust Scott's chops..... just a personal pet-peeve of mine...... not every canyon is a classic..... a "classic" holds a special meaning to me. A route can be great, spectacular, outstanding.... but still not be a classic..... a route can also be a real turd but still might be considered a classic..... Behunin might fit the classic turd category......

I used to tease Ram about something similar to this all the time. If you ever pay attention to his Ram Reports you will notice just about every canyon he has ever done is a "personal favorite"......

One other note.... I would certainly NOT call Trail Canyon a classic...... its a great canyon but has nothing special that I would consider makes it a classic.

A couple of canyons I might consider classics...

Buckskin
The Subway
Zion Narrows
Imlay
Heaps
The Black Hole

YMMV

Anyone care to add or subtract from my list?

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12655 Location: The Rubbish Bin

Here's a picture of some hijackers.

This thread has been taken captive. Everybody remain calm, and you will not be hurt.

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7806 Location: Local Bordello

The thread is titled "Utah Classics".... I fail to see where or how it was hijacked...