Bogley

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Iceaxe wrote: Latest impressions.... the shoe is not as sticky as the Five-Ten Canyoneers, but it is much more comfortable. The low cut fills with sand and debris easy.

And as suspected... that cute little strapy thingy is a piece of shit that will be gone the first time the shoe has to do some real work.

I know a dozen folks who have switched from Five-Ten to Exum Rivers. All are happy with the switch to date and said the trade for sticky to comfort was worth it.

I'm still using my old Nike Air Rivero's and would not trade them for Five-Ten or Exum Rivers. To bad they stopped making the Nikes.

Anyone else want to offer up an opinion or observation?

:popcorn:

My Nike Rioveros aren't very comfortable or as sticky as they used to be. They have seen a lot of use. I tried using my Vasque Catalysts (pre-goretex) with Stealth Rubber as an alternative canyoneering shoe and the huge comfort difference made me not want to wear the Nikes again.

Can't decide whether I'll go with the 5.10s or Exum Rivers, never tried either... walking comfort would probably tip me in the Exum River direction. I hate long hikes in uncomfortable shoes.

Josh has the Exum Rivers and finds them sufficiently sticky, way comfortable, and very light but notices that they fill with sand easily and quickly. Straps are wore out quickly(as expected). Other parts of the shoe are wearing out too, but no faster than any shoe would given the beating they take in the narrow canyons.

Ben

[stefan]

i have never tried the canyoneers. but i have now used the exum rivers.

the exum river is much burlier than the exum ridge. instead of using a synthetic leather external frame, "Molded rubber reinforcements protect the front uppers from the gnarliest textures known to manwhich is extremely durable." ...this is most definitely the case. i have used them in tight narrows with lots of stemming and i found the rubber frame has held up extremely well, but the some of mesh has started to tear and more importanly the sticky rubber is wearing very quickly!! as far as where the mesh is tearing, it's not as troublesome of a spot as in the exum ridge which became dysfunctional from tight slots. i don't have a problem with ankle support, so these are just fine for me YMMV. the exum rivers seem to retain a slight bit more water than the exum ridges, as i felt my foot a little soggier after their use. and, by a small amount i would say that the exum ridge is slightly more comfortable, likely due to the effect of the rubber exo-frame.

overall, while expensive, i'd consider it very functional and a great improvement over the exum ridge for canyoneering.

[stefan]

as far as sand goes, my guess is that it depends on a person's foot and sock. some may allow more room for sand to get in and sit. i think my foot really fills out the shoe and causes less sand to get in. i definitely get some though.

[ajroadtrips]

Iceaxe wrote:
Anyone else want to offer up an opinion or observation?


I have never used the Five Ten Canyoneer, but used to use the Five Ten Mountain Master exclusively (until they quit making them), as well as a couple of pairs of Vasque Pingora's which use the same stealth soles as the canyoneers.

My experience has been the soles wear down to bald tread quickly. During prime season, I may get 3-5 months out of a pair before the tread is completely gone. The uppers are usually hammered to near death about the same time. At $80-$100 a pair, this is frustrating.

Lately I have been using either old running shoes for dry canyons, or light hikers for wet canyon in Zion and saving the sticky rubber shoes for special occasions... I picked up a pair of Addidas light hikers at Sports Authority on clearance for $35 that are holding up as well as the $80 pairs. Not super sticky, but I find they work for me. I am hoping the less sticky rubber is firmer and will last longer.

YMMV

[moabfool]

Bought a pair of Exum Rivers over the weekend. They gripped like a pit bull on a bone to everything but the slickest rock. They let in gravel a bit easier than the Reebok trail runners I've been using, which was frustrating, but overall I loved them. It was nice to be so confident on my feet.

[shaggy125]

I just got hooked up with a free pair of the exhum rivers (I know you are all extremely jealous). I'll be testing them out tomorrow. They fit much more snug on me than my canyoneers, but seem really comfortable. I'll be writing an in depth review for backcountry.com (where they got the idea that I'm some expert or something, I'll never understand... but I'm not going to tell them otherwise when they are hooking me up with free gear :nod: ). I'll of course post my review on here when it's done.

Eric.

[Iceaxe]

La Sportiva Exum River

Since I have been evaluating canyoneering shoes lately I thought I would update the La Sportiva Exum Rivers which have now been out for over a year.

The shoe has gained some popularity in the canyoneering community but it does have a couple of weaknesses that are showing up after long term use. Most of the weaknesses were predicted the minute the shoe hit the market.

The mess sides do not hold up in difficult canyons. A little time spent in any mae west type canyon requiring foot jamming will result in holes in the mess sides.

Same thing for the cute little strappy type thing. A difficult canyon will destroy the strap in short order.

The shoe also suffers a significant loss in traction when the temperatures drop below freezing, more so then most out shoes I've experienced.

I would be interested in hearing other opinions on the long term service of this shoe. Have others experianced the same results?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Hey, that's my foot...

I like 'em, and the uppers haven't worn nearly as quick as the soles (good sign). I think mine have lost some stick just because they are bald on the bottom now. The holes on the side are no big deal, because the molded rubber is what provides all the stability. I don't like the shoelace eyelets though. Poor design.

BTW, I think Bo has these on sale right now, for under 50 bucks...

[Stick]

I have a pair of exum rivers. The strap came off the first time I wore them through alcatraz, and I have a few holes in the mesh. I don't think the holes a much of an issue and I think they are much more comfortable than the canyoneers. They did not stick quite as well as the canyoneers when they were new, and have lost quite a bit of traction since I first got them last summer.

I will keep using these until they wear out completely but I think I will try something else instead of getting another pair, probably the canyoneer 2 or those OTB shoes.

[Iceaxe]

I regards to shoes losing their stickiness..... I think storing the shoes in a cool environment helps maintain the stick. I had some shoes I was storing in the garage where temps easily get over 100 degrees on hot days and they seemed to lose some stick. I think putting the rubber through a large number of big heat cycles damages the rubber to a small extent. I have nothing to back this up other then a gut feeling.... and the knowledge that heat cycles change the way tires preform on a race car.

:popcorn:

[supercj]

Outdoor Outlet has them for $44.97. Half price. I picked them up a week ago to go through Das Boot and I liked them. I haven't really got anything to compare them to since the only other thing I have used are Merrel trail running shoes, but they were nice. The strap seems useless, I just use it to hold the laces down and to keep them tied. They did get some sand and a few rocks in them which was annoying, but I only slipped once in them, but I was just trying to imitate Shane since he slipped in the exact place just in front of me. They should make the foot opening a little tighter or maybe with an elastic materials around it so it closes better around the ankle to keep dirt and rocks out. I think I have seen that on some of those Nike ACG's.

[Brian in SLC]

Iceaxe wrote: I regards to shoes losing their stickiness..... I think storing the shoes in a cool environment helps maintain the stick. I had some shoes I was storing in the garage where temps easily get over 100 degrees on hot days and they seemed to lose some stick. I think putting the rubber through a large number of big heat cycles damages the rubber to a small extent. I have nothing to back this up other then a gut feeling.... and the knowledge that heat cycles change the way tires preform on a race car.

Sticky climbing shoe rubber was originally adapted from race car tire rubber, I seem to recall.

Probably a combo platter of ozone and the heat cycle making the surface of the exposed rubber change more quicky over time. Best bet may be to isolate the shoes in a airtight container, ie, plastic ziplock bag?

I always notice that climbing shoes I haven't used for awhile don't stick near as well, until I wear the surface of the rubber off a bit.

Diminishing return with sticky rubber for shoes. More stick seems to equal less useful working life. In climbing, on certain routes, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make (big time, some days, on some climbs). In canyons, unless you really need the advantage of super sticky rubber, might not be as big a deal. Flip side is too, that sticky rubber does leave a black mark on the rock too, so, not as "leave no trace" as the less sticky stuff.

Good feedback on the Exum Rivers. I'm wearing my old Exums (retired from outdoor use, relegated to office use) and notice that they have held up externally very well. One thing I do is lock down the threads with that thick seal coat stuff (ie, like shoe goo). I wonder if applying some to the mesh (light enough coat so as to not block the mesh holes) might give more working life.

Another thing I've noticed with shoes and wear is, it also depends on how the shoe last is built, and, how well your feet fit it. Mine tend to run a bit wide especially in the little toe area, so, I add glue to the little toe region so's I don't pop a hole in that area (which I've seen numerous times in the past and my current climbing shoe has a hole in the leather (!) in that spot on one shoe). So, if you have real wide feet, and the shoes are built for narrow, you may be wearing the mesh out sooner partly because of the way your foot is forcing the sides out. Also, I note that friends who tend to have sloppy feet, or, drag their toes, etc, wear their shoes out in those areas much sooner than folks with more precise footwork. So, not due to the shoe but, their footwork.

Anyhoo, good stuff. Have a new pair of Exum Rivers in the box, unused, sized larger to fit a neoprene sock. Been impressed with the Exums, for sure.

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Brian in SLC wrote: Sticky climbing shoe rubber was originally adapted from race car tire rubber, I seem to recall.

Interesting... I didn't know that.... but it makes sense.

Now I'm really curious since I do have some knowledge of tire compounds and such....

So race car tires can be treated with chemical products to make them super sticky, Track Bite is one such product (FYI: Chemically treating the tires is banned by most sanctioning bodies). So it stands to reason that old canyoneering or climbing shoes might be treated similiarly?

I'll see if I can get my hands on some Track Bite and test it on some old canyoneering shoes....

[stefan]

the exum river is a damn fine, comfortable, and functional shoe :2thumbs:

i say that despite three things

(1) utah canyoneering simply abuses these shoes all around (whatareyagonnado?). the rubber outers do a fair job of holding the shoe together. that seam in the mid-frontal rubber outer needs to go or be better protected.

(2) prolonged stemming in canyons really wears down the soles a great deal, which i have no doubt is dependent upon weight requiring more friction. (again, whatareyagonnado?)

(3) and that strap ... i took those of before i even used each of the pairs that i own. the yellow plastic on the first pair came broken in the mail :haha:

[Bo_Beck]

[quote="Iceaxe"][quote="Brian in SLC"]Sticky climbing shoe rubber was originally adapted from race car tire rubber, I seem to recall.

Vitali Bramani "VIBRAM" , Italy started using 'Race Car Tires' rubber on his shoes to get better traction while climbing.