Bogley

[dbessee]

OK. It's looking more and more like the 19 May '06 Cedar City ACA class. I'm holding off the reservation until I have confirmation of the time off but that's what it's lookin' like at the moment. :2thumbs:

Most of the gear recommended and even many of the techniques discussed on previous posts are familiar from rock climbing, mountaineering, and even a bit of tech rescue training, but the 5.10 Canyoneers (what did RAM call them in the freezefest TR; Bumblebees?) are not. I wouldn't have thought SCUBA indtruction would be handy but at least I've got a variety of wetsuits... :haha:

The descriptions I've been able to find are vague and the testimonials few. So what is the deal? I have and use different footwear for many situations and in wet canyons I can see tearing up my LaSportiva Clifs pretty fast, not to mention that they aren't great approach shoes, let alone real hiking. :frustrated:

Folks have recommended sneakers, which I'm not really opposed to (other than buying many pairs as I wear them out fast) but I've had pretty dismal results scrambling in sneakers as they edge-roll badly and the sole rubber varies widely in gripping power.

So I'm soliciting opinions on these. I have no problem investing the $ if I'm going to get a return on the investment.

Please fire away. Thanks.

:popcorn:

[marc olivares]

Don,

the 5.10's are really cool water course shoes, but you won't be needing them for Rich's class. They are a nice addition to any wet slot canyon, but during his class you won't be subjected to any of those.
Chances are, Rich will take you to a couple of spots in the hills to the east of Cedar, one to do natural anchors and stemming, and the other to do a practical rappel in canyon. both of which do not require the use of such a fancy shoe. tennis shoe hikers are perfect for this class. in addition, Rich will supply any and all equipment that you need, w/ a variety of descenders if you chose to experiment w/ a few. Rich is a wealth of knowledge, so listen up and ask lots and lots of questions.

as far as shoe recommendations, i think you'll find that this a one of those areas where everyone likes something a little different. for wet slots the 5.10 is great, not perfect but compared w/ it's competition there are pretty nice. for general hiking or approach walking i personally like tennis shoe hikers (ie merril, columbia, new balance). pack hiking i prefer something that supports my ankles more, like a true hiking boot. i just recently got a pair of Asolo fsn 95 gtx hiking boots that i just love. they fit my "Barney Rubble" feet just right... :2thumbs:

[rockgremlin]

Many people don't like the 5.10 Canyoneers. I don't know why? It's really weird because it's more of a situation where either you LOVE them or you absolutely HATE them. I have never met a person that is indifferent towards them. When I ask the 5.10 haters why they hate them, here's the range of replies:

1. I just don't like them.

2. They don't fit well.

3. I just don't like them.

4. They're not a good approach shoe.

5. They're ugly.

6. I just don't like them.

The fact that most of the 5.10 haters can't really explain WHY they hate them makes me believe that they just like being contrary. The 5.10s are pretty popular, and I think these people are just trying to be different. :ne_nau:

Personally I like them. I just bought my second pair a few months ago. I put my first pair through hell, and they held up very well. I wore my first pair through about 25 canyons. On all 25 of those, I wore the 5.10s as the approach and egress shoe into and out of the canyons.

I like them because they fit snugly, they drain well, they stick to sandstone well, and they're durable. On top of that, 5.10 has a smokin' return policy. If you have ANY problem with them whatsoever, return them for a new pair -- no questions asked!

[rockgremlin]

I agree with Marc -- you won't be needing a fancy shoe while taking any ACA course. Old beat up tennies should be fine.

[James_B_Wads2000]

I love my 5.10 and would never ware any other shoe canyoneering. I first used a rented pair to do the Subway a few years back and I fell in love with them. I too have just recently bought a second pair after trashing my first in about 20 canyons.

Pros:
First and foremost is friction. These stick like glue to sandstone, even wet sandstone. I thought this would only last the first few canyon but found the still very sticky right to the end. Second is they drain very well and will dry fast. Third is that they are comfortable and light.

Cons:

First they are a soft shoe, meaning the souls are not very hard. This means you feel more rocks under your feet than you would a hiking boot. I took a couple of times of me warring them before my feet got used to it. Second they suck when hiking in dry loose sand. The quick drain features also let fine loose sand in as easy as water. I had a couple of experiences where I was hiking across sand dune type terrain and having my 5.10’s fill with sand. This is easily fixed by removing the shoe and dumping the sand out. Another way around this is to have the shoes wet. If you step out of the water into dry sand the sand will stick to the out side rather than flow in. After a wile the shoes will dry with a crust of sand that will keep most sand from coming in.

I would recommend trying them on first before buying them. The true size runs smaller than the size number of the shoe. I didn’t do this with my first pair and ended up with shoes too small. Unfortunately I figured this out after I had worn them a couple of times and couldn’t return them. As a result I later lost both large toenails on two separate occasions before warring my shoes out. On my new pair I bought them one more size larger and haven’t had any more problems. Also take into account the thickness of the neoprene socks you are going to wear.

I would suggest going to Zion Adventure Company to buy them. They are in Springdale Utah just outside of Zion National Park (40miles from Cedar City). The sell them for about a cheap as you can get them. In fact they’re blasting out last year(s) model for $59.

http://www.zionadventures.com/store/

I paid $80 for mine last August. Or you can rent a pair and try it out if you’re in the Zion area. Or they were even selling retired pairs for $10 that you could try out to see if you like them.

I hope this helps,

James

PS I like them becaue I look so damn cool warring them. :cool2:

[Iceaxe]

I like the 5.10 Canyoneer and own a pair. Actually I've owned 4 pair over the years. I like the Nike Reverio better and bought two extra pair when I heard they were discontinued. But after I wear out the Nikes I'll be back to wearing the Canyoneers unless something better comes along. I can't think of anyone I know who actually owned a pair of Canyoneers that hates them.

Most the negative I've noticed comes from those who wish they owned a pair of Canyoneers :haha:

[shaggy125]

I'm actually looking at buying a pair, but 5.10 is coming out with a new model Feb. 1st, so I am waiting to see what they are like. It's not the bumblebee yellow anymore, so RAM will have to find a new nickname for them. There are some extensive reviews on backpackgeartest.org, including a review written by the emperor, Tom Jones. Here is a link:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Footwear/Boots/Five%20Ten%20Canyoneer/

Eric.

[Iceaxe]

Where are you getting your info that the new Canyoneers will NOT be yellow and black? Far as I know they are still going to be bumble-bees. 5.10 has some other products coming that might be good for canyoneering that are a different color.

And for a little history lesson.... I believe Kip Marshall was the feller who coined the term "bumble bees". Kip is one of the Zion guru's.

:cool2:

[marc olivares]

anyone know what changes they made to the 06'?

maybe someone going to the OR show can check em' out?

[jumar]

I saw a picture of the new ones....trying to remember where. I'll see if I can dig it up. As I recall there was still yellow and black, but not as bright of yellow. They ddin't look as obnoxious.

[jumar]

Here it is...
http://www.ceffo.com/pagine/it/19/FIVETENCANYONEER2.html
Zoom in and you can see the yellow.

[Iceaxe]

Shiiiiitttt..... that cute little candy ass strap won't last 10 minutes in a mae west.

[jumar]

I've been told that they're more durable than the original. Made by a different factory. The 5.10 Insight looks like it has the same sole, and has gotten very good reviews. One reviewer hiked over 200 miles in his and they were still doing fine. Guess we'll have to see, eh.

I'm getting a pair of the insights for dry canyons, and as an approach shoe. I'll let ya know how it goes.

[Iceaxe]

The 2006 Canyoneer is supposed to be available in March 2006 and offer improved sole, improved traction, improved stealth rubber. And it appears the ugly yellow color has been toned down.

[jumar]

Here's some reviews on the 5.10 Insight. It sounds like a good shoe
http://tinyurl.com/9a4h3