Bogley

[canyonguru]

Hey just curious when is it the warmest in Das Boot and is a wet suit always needed. I am going to try to shoot for late august. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the canyon.

Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts

[nat]

canyonguru wrote: Hey just curious when is it the warmest in Das Boot and is a wet suit always needed. I am going to try to shoot for late august. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the canyon.

Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts

Das Boot can be dry, but unless you have a very recent conditions report, I think it would be unwise not to bring a wetsuit. It's awfully cold when wet.

The full right fork is definitely the way to go in my opinion . There is an excellent long, deep dark slot above Das Boot. You can do this by way of wildcat canyon, but there is a fair ammount of bushwhacking. I think that it faster and easier (and a shorter car shuttle) to simply approach as if doing Das Boot, but instead of dropping in at the Das Boot entry, continue rim walking until you eventually get to Wildcap Seeps where you can drop in. This involves a bit of routefinding.

Nat

[trackrunner]

canyonguru wrote: Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts

Right Fork does not go through Das Boot & Subway. Full Left Fork does go through Das Boot & Subway. It is a big difference in the two. Which one do you mean?

[nat]

nat wrote: canyonguru wrote: Hey just curious when is it the warmest in Das Boot and is a wet suit always needed. I am going to try to shoot for late august. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the canyon.

Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts


The full right fork

Nat

I meant of course the "full left fork" and assume you did too.

Nat

[trackrunner]

nat wrote: The full right fork is definitely the way to go in my opinion . There is an excellent long, deep dark slot above Das Boot. You can do this by way of wildcat canyon, but there is a fair ammount of bushwhacking. I think that it faster and easier (and a shorter car shuttle) to simply approach as if doing Das Boot, but instead of dropping in at the Das Boot entry, continue rim walking until you eventually get to Wildcap Seeps where you can drop in. This involves a bit of routefinding.

Nat

In Michael Kelsey's book he describes a big keeper pothole on this route for Full Left Fork.

[tanya]

Shane, the Bushwhacker (Kip) Bo and I all went in the summer and Bo and I were in 5/7 wet/dry suits antd we were warm all but our feet. Shane was in a 3mm and cold, but he was not use to spending all the time I like to in a canyon to take pictures and play.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-das-boot.htm
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/boot.htm



Pictures
http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/albums/index74.htm

[nat]

trackrunner wrote: nat wrote: The full right fork is definitely the way to go in my opinion . There is an excellent long, deep dark slot above Das Boot. You can do this by way of wildcat canyon, but there is a fair ammount of bushwhacking. I think that it faster and easier (and a shorter car shuttle) to simply approach as if doing Das Boot, but instead of dropping in at the Das Boot entry, continue rim walking until you eventually get to Wildcap Seeps where you can drop in. This involves a bit of routefinding.

Nat

In Michael Kelsey's book he describes a big keeper pothole on this route for Full Left Fork.

Yeah, it's at the end of the upper slot, just before the Das Boot entry/exit. When I did it, it was full of water so we hardly noticed it. I think that it could probably be dealt with using a pack toss. Before entering the pothole (it's a rap into it) it should be easy to toss a pack tied to the end of the rappel line over the far lip. The start of the rap is directly above the pothole and a good ways above.

Nat

[canyonguru]

yeah left fork is what i ment. u guys know about how long the trip would be for the entire left fork starting at wildcat. i am asuming that das boot will be full of water since we will be doing it just about at the end of monsoon season. thanks alot for all the beta. i'm am pretty good with cold water i have done pine creek and keyhole full of water with a t-shirt and board shorts. but i will probably bring a suit anyways.

[trackrunner]

AJ posted a trip report on the Full Left Fork 6/8
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=119324&highlight=#119324

[Scott Card]

nat wrote: canyonguru wrote: Hey just curious when is it the warmest in Das Boot and is a wet suit always needed. I am going to try to shoot for late august. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the canyon.

Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts

Das Boot can be dry, but unless you have a very recent conditions report, I think it would be unwise not to bring a wetsuit. It's awfully cold when wet.

The full right fork is definitely the way to go in my opinion . There is an excellent long, deep dark slot above Das Boot. You can do this by way of wildcat canyon, but there is a fair ammount of bushwhacking. I think that it faster and easier (and a shorter car shuttle) to simply approach as if doing Das Boot, but instead of dropping in at the Das Boot entry, continue rim walking until you eventually get to Wildcap Seeps where you can drop in. This involves a bit of routefinding.

Nat

I am headed to Das Boot next week. How much extra time, distance and skill involved to hit that nice deep dark slot you speak of? Rap Lengths?

[nat]

Scott Card wrote: nat wrote: canyonguru wrote: Hey just curious when is it the warmest in Das Boot and is a wet suit always needed. I am going to try to shoot for late august. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the canyon.

Also what is it like to do the entire right fork starting at wildcat canyon. It looks like on the topo that you can start down great west and take a right (west) down the top of the right fork, head down Das Boot and come out the bottom of the subway. Any thoughts

Das Boot can be dry, but unless you have a very recent conditions report, I think it would be unwise not to bring a wetsuit. It's awfully cold when wet.

The full right fork is definitely the way to go in my opinion . There is an excellent long, deep dark slot above Das Boot. You can do this by way of wildcat canyon, but there is a fair ammount of bushwhacking. I think that it faster and easier (and a shorter car shuttle) to simply approach as if doing Das Boot, but instead of dropping in at the Das Boot entry, continue rim walking until you eventually get to Wildcap Seeps where you can drop in. This involves a bit of routefinding.

Nat

I am headed to Das Boot next week. How much extra time, distance and skill involved to hit that nice deep dark slot you speak of? Rap Lengths?

It probably takes about an hour extra (maybe a little less) beyond the Das Boot entrance to get to the drop in. Then maybe a little over an hour to get through the upper slot. Two hours more than Das Boot would be a guess? I think Jeff and I did it in about 8 hours total (going through the Subway as well). To be safe, you might plan on 10. The rap lengths a re pretty short. About 4 raps in the slot above Das Boot, all less than 30ft. Highly recommended. I think the slot above Das Boot is as good or better than Das Boot. Taken as a whole, upper slot-Das Boot-Subwayis really great. :rockon:

Nat

[Scott Card]

Thanks. I will see if others are game. That sounds like a bunch of fun. :2thumbs:

[AJ]

I've done the full left fork many times. From Wildcat, Little Blue and Hammerhead. Going in Hammerhead is my favorite. It makes you carry extra ropes though; as there is a longer drop in Hammerhead.

Wildcat option has the most bushwhacking, but the least rope (30ft drops I think.) Little Blue has less bushwhacking, but a little more rope (100ft drops I think.) Hammerhead has the least amount of bushwhacking, but more routefinding (and a decent amount of bushwhacking if you choose wrong), but is pretty cool. It also requires the most rope (180ft drop I think.) Make sure you verify the rope lengths, because I'm very sleep deprived right now, and those are from memory...

The pothole has never been a problem for us, even with really low water. Never had to hook or even partner assist. I've even done the route solo with no issues. I'd still have a potshot or two and a trick or two up your sleeve, just in case. Canyons can change...

Little Blue and Hammerhead options are in Tom's book. Hammerhead is a Right Fork variation. If you go in Little Blue, then Little Blue will dictate your rope length. If you go in Hammerhead, then Hammerhead will dictate your rope length. If you go in Wildcat, then Das Boot will dictate your rope length. All the raps above Das Boot are short; I think I used a 60' rope and doubled it over for all drops on the last trip through.

I think my Full Left fork trips were all between 12-16 hours, but we moved pretty quick so YMMV. It's a great canyon though; well worth it.

You can hike to Wildcat and/or Little Blue from the Wildcat trailhead; but if you have two cars, it's easier (shorter and less gain) to come from West Rim. For Hammerhead, you definitely want to start from West Rim.



Have fun!
A.J.

[shaggy125]

I did the full left via the route Nat explained. I was pretty much a noob at the time (I had maybe done 10, mainly Zion canyons). Our group was slow compared to what I am used to now and it took us about 14 hours. We screwed up on the routefinding and ended up setting up a rap you normally wouldn't have to do. Nat's 8-10 hour suggestion is if you find the right route the first time and are in good shape and move quickly (Nat will tell you he didn't think they went too fast, but by normal standards they moved fast). The full Left is really fun when there is a lot of water. Ton's of swims and very beautiful. It would not be nearly as fun in 90+ if it were dry. It would be VERY hot and in the sun between the upper narrows and Das Boot. I doubt it would be as pretty either because trudging in the heat over boulders instead of a relaxing float just makes things seem not as pretty :mrgreen: .

[canyonguru]

thanks for the info i always wondered where hammerhead dropped into. i will probably just hit up wildcat the first run down just to get the canyon figured out for the most part.