Bogley

snatch · Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 104

trackrunner wrote: snatch wrote: Please elaborate, I'm completely 100% absolutely lost.

I believe DCed = down climbed

ahhh, down climbed. now i' see... thank you for the elaboration. why such the oxymoron? down - the opposite of up. climb - tO AsCeNd. this bassackwards lingo constantly continues to confuse me.

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7793 Location: Local Bordello

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Hey Snatch.... where have you been hiding?

Let's go do the Ice Caves!!!!! I'm free most of July.

:popcorn:

Bo_Beck · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 847 Location: Southern Utah

Mooseman70 wrote: Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

I can speak for the cases in Zion. No, the rescuees are not charged with the flight time or man hours. There have been times that a "citation" has been issued for negligence, etc., but the fine wouldn't even put a minute dent in the cost of operation. There is a general special fund set aside in the NPS that is used to fund SAR operations. If the rescuee is gracious they will sometimes send funds directly to the park which are then used to upgrade equipment. This doesn't happen often though.

I understand that other National Parks might operate differently though, i.e., Grand Canyon may or may not send a bill to the rescuee? It would be interesting to know if Alan and Iris recieved a bill?

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7793 Location: Local Bordello

FWIW: I understand Grand County (Moab) sends a bill for SAR.

I believe they are the only ones in Utah who send a SAR bill.

:popcorn:

deathcricket · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:25 am Post subject:

Interesting, when I was in Subway last... I think September... The day before they did the controlled burn last year.... Anyways, there was a fat lady with a twisted ankle down there just before the nasty exit portion. There were a couple rangers and a medic wrapping her ankle up with an ace bandage. He specifically told her "OK you can try and hike up, just go nice an slow and you'll be fine. Or you can have us call a helicopter to lift you out and it will cost you $15,000 for a rescue. They can be here in about half hour if you like." She said "Ok let me just rest it for an hour or so and we'll see how it goes".

I guess he could have just been telling her that since he suspected her injuries weren't that bad and she was a whiner? But we were all joking to ourselves after we left "Unless a bone was popping out on both legs, screw paying that kinda cash". But that's why I always thought the "patient" was charged. As they should be IMO.

Edit: Just re-read it and it mught sound like I'm arguing with BO. Obviously he is the master rescue-er. So i consider him to be fact. I just heard the ranger say it and to an actual "rescue-ee" with another ranger and 1st aid person standing there and thought his words were a fact till now.
:hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief:

moabfool · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 699 Location: The Sunset

This just goes to show how conditions change and must be assesed every time somebody attempts a canyon or any outdoor activity. Last November this same hole was about 8 feet deep. I jumped in from the edge of hole just to check. I thought about jumping into it from the ledge above but decided against it because of the high PFF. I did the downclimb (not the handline) instead. I can see how an ankle could get twisted pretty badly.

ratagonia · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Zion - Subway Rescue

Sombeech wrote: Interesting. I'm assuming this is the spot

Now that some time has passed, please allow me to fulfill by designated role... :nono:

I know Bo disagrees, but I RAPPEL in the Subway and wear a helmet, and suggest that WHEN TAKING NOOBIES YOU DON'T KNOW, it is irresponsible to do otherwise. Handlining that last drop - are you CRAZY? or just STUPID??? :ne_nau:

People DO handline it all the time - and people crash and burn there on a regular basis, because handlining is not a very predictable technique. Quite a few rescues there each year (as well as at the first boulder).

We got this technique called RAPPELLING. Works like a charm. Does not depend on inordinate handstrength-to-weight ratio. Requires a tiny amount of equipment.

And NO! the Lord shall not provide, in all cases.

Tom (aka the Helmet Police, aka the Handline Police).

ratagonia · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject:

Bo_Beck wrote: Mooseman70 wrote: Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

I can speak for the cases in Zion. No, the rescuees are not charged with the flight time or man hours. There have been times that a "citation" has been issued for negligence, etc., but the fine wouldn't even put a minute dent in the cost of operation. There is a general special fund set aside in the NPS that is used to fund SAR operations. If the rescuee is gracious they will sometimes send funds directly to the park which are then used to upgrade equipment. This doesn't happen often though.

I understand that other National Parks might operate differently though, i.e., Grand Canyon may or may not send a bill to the rescuee? It would be interesting to know if Alan and Iris recieved a bill?

As a general policy, rescues in the USA are provided by government agencies and volunteer organizations free of charge. In the NPS lands, rescuees can be charged if they are successfully cited for illegal activity; but the NPS does not actively pursue the claim. In some Counties, citation of rescuees is part of the process in an attempt to collect for the rescue - ask the Arharts about that!!

You essentially pay rescue insurance - every time you pay a local, state and federal tax. Part of the services provided. Most of the most expensive rescuees the public finds quite sympathetic. In Utah, it seems to mostly be Boy Scouts who wander away from camp in the Uintahs, and snowmobilers who's engine konks out deep in the backcountry. It's not just us reckless adrenaline junkies, but also and mostly your general solid-citizen types who are enjoying a streak of bad luck or being "a might confused" about where they are.

If you get rescued by a private heli service in the GC, they will dun your health insurance company for ambulance service. Since that's what they did.

Tom

deathcricket · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Zion - Subway Rescue

ratagonia wrote: Now that some time has passed, please allow me to fulfill by designated role... :nono:

I know Bo disagrees, but I RAPPEL in the Subway and wear a helmet, and suggest that WHEN TAKING NOOBIES YOU DON'T KNOW, it is irresponsible to do otherwise. Handlining that last drop - are you CRAZY? or just STUPID??? :ne_nau:

People DO handline it all the time - and people crash and burn there on a regular basis, because handlining is not a very predictable technique. Quite a few rescues there each year (as well as at the first boulder).

We got this technique called RAPPELLING. Works like a charm. Does not depend on inordinate handstrength-to-weight ratio. Requires a tiny amount of equipment.

And NO! the Lord shall not provide, in all cases.

Tom (aka the Helmet Police, aka the Handline Police). :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Also people, be sure to wear a seatbelt WHEN YOU DRIVE!

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7793 Location: Local Bordello

We spent this past weekend in the Teton's and ran into Teton Search and Rescue doing some at Wind Cave. Out of curiosity I asked if they billed for rescues... their reply was... they bill for the helicopter if one is used..... (they bill for nothing else) they told me they list the copter on the bill as "Air Ambulance" and that many insurance companies will cover the cost of the copter if it's listed that way.... they also mentioned they don't always collect for the copter.

Just thought it was interesting and relevant to this thread.

:cool2: