Bogley

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12601 Location: The Rubbish Bin

Iceaxe wrote: Sombeech wrote: I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours.

Beech you were with someone who knew where they were going and how to defeat all the obstacles

Definitely. I had the wrong impression all around. We would have been screwed without Bo.

ratagonia · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:22 am Post subject:

Jer53621 wrote: ratagonia wrote: How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops.

Tom

Does this mean we are foolish to try this as rookies, would we be better served starting at the left fork trailhead and climbing up? Should we be encouraged or discouraged by your cautious tone. Thanks so much for the thoughtful post.

Jeremy

You should be cautioned.

It depends on who you are, which none of us know. Hopefully you do. Fast strong resourceful and lucky? Can read a map? Good in the heat? Etc. Is there someone in your group that knows how to rappel? Have a 60' piece of rope? A harness or two, and a rappel device? Etc. etc.

Call the Kolob Visitor Center and find out when they open. Be there, no matter how early you have to start. Do a good job on it, and don't get hurt. It will be wonderful!!

Tom

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

Sombeech wrote: Definitely. I had the wrong impression all around. We would have been screwed without Bo.

:lol8:

Didn't mean to castrate ya.... just warning that doing the route in 7 hours may or may not happen if no one in the group has done it before.

:cool2:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

I think Tom is being overly cautious... dozen of exerianced hikers do the route every day with no tech skills.... even a lot of inexperianced hikers mange to do the route and survive. When I first did the Subway I was just a strong youth with intermedate backcountry skills. We did the route with 30' of webbing, we had tie knots in the webbing every foot.

That there are a couple rescues in the Subway each year is to be expected, with 50 people per day that's a lot of people in a the backcountry, which is not nearly as safe as Disneyland....

My only word of caution.... don't climb down anything you can not climb back up until you are 100% positive you are in the Subway. Get an early start, carry plenty of water....

Have a fun trip.... YMMV....

Brian in SLC · Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 459

My opinion? If you're driving from SLC leaving at 5am, then you should just hike up from the bottom. You'd be lucky to start by 11am, and, by the time you configure a car shuttle (or not) and pack up, it'll be well past noon. Way too late to start this type of hike. And, you'll already be tired from an early start from SLC.

By hiking in from the bottom, you dial the egress on the front end, so, when you come back with a little more time, you'll have the exit all sussed out and won't be fishin' around in the dark wondering where the trailhead is. Its nice to wait until later in the day in the summer heat to come back up that trail, but, not waiting so long as to attempt it in the dark.

I hiked from the bottom 2 or 3 times before I did the top down (across Russel Gulch) entry. That made the trip less stressful.

When we did the top down trip, we were fairly experienced as climbers so carrying a minimal amount of gear made sense for us, but, I was really surprised at how little gear and saavy the other folks I saw bumbling around in there had. Its no wonder to me that folks get hurt in there. Doesn't matter if its to be expected due to the number of folks that do it, it happens partly because folks get in over their heads very easily on this type of gig. You're not a number. Gettin' hurt, well, it hurts. And it puts other folks at risk too.

Its easy to miss the easy entry into the canyon. So, unless you're saavy on how to rappel, set up anchors, etc, then either try to go with more time, earlier, or with someone who has done the route and can manage the technical stuff a bit more. Heck, like someone on this site for instance.

The best part of the "subway" is the subway (duh!). You see all that stuff from the bottom up, so, its not that big a deal to do the hike from the bottom instead of the top. And, you can go up as far as you like from the bottom too, for bonus points and as you feel comfortable with.

Good luck. Tell us how it goes, either way. And, bring a headlight and extra food. A forced bivy this time of year is no biggie as the temp's are pretty warm at night. Sometimes its much better to set than to try to push through in the dark. Also, make sure you top your water off when you can. Your biggest risk might be the heat and getting dehydrated.

-Brian in SLC

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

Brian in SLC wrote: My opinion? If you're driving from SLC leaving at 5am, then you should just hike up from the bottom.

Good advice. :2thumbs:

shaggy125 · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject:

Don't most epics begin with: "We got a late start..."

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

shaggy125 wrote: Don't most epics begin with: "We got a late start..."

...and the weather was iffy....

:haha:

AJ · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 245 Location: Boulder, CO

As of a couple weeks ago, there were strategic logs in place, where the skilled could downclimb all the drops. That being said, I'd definitely still recommend bringing the 60' rope along. Better to have it and not need it.

Also, if you are getting a later start, I'd consider just driving up and starting from the upper trailhead (Wildcat.) Leave the car there, do the canyon, and then one person can hitch with a group that is going up to retrieve thier car from up there. I was solo last week when I did the full left fork, and there were plenty of folks still in the Subway that I'm sure I could have gotten a lift with. (Ended up finishing the end hike with one person that gave me a lift back up to Wildcat. Was pretty easy.)

Overall, I'd recommend what others had. Get as early of a start as you can. That will beat the heat, give you extra slack time in case you run into navigation issues, etc. Worst case, just pick a place in the canyon to take a nice nap during the day. My favorite is just after the final rappel, (with the waterfall you can walk under) and just down past the tiered pools. There is a bit of sloped slickrock there on the left (looking down canyon) that is awesome for drying out gear and relaxing. There is a spring around 100 feet farther down on the right (LDC).

As Shane mentioned, everyone is just being conservative (including me) because none of us know you or your capabilities. Plenty of folks make it in fine though; so you should be fine. You should see plenty of tracks on the way in. If you don't, you are probably going the wrong way...

Have a blast! Subway is great!
A.J.

trackrunner · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 984

AJ wrote: As of a couple weeks ago, there were stragegic logs in place, where the skilled could downclimb all the drops. That being said, I'd definitely still recommend bringing the 60' rope along. Better to have it and not need it.

Also, if you are getting a later start, I'd consider just driving up and starting from the upper trailhead (Wildcat.) Leave the car there, do the canyon, and then one person can hitch with a group that is going up to retrieve thier car from up there. I was solo last week when I did the full left fork, and there were plenty of folks still in the Subway that I'm sure I could have gotten a lift with. (Ended up finishing the end hike with one person that gave me a lift back up to Wildcat. Was pretty easy.)

Overall, I'd recommend what others had. Get as early of a start as you can. That will beat the heat, give you extra slack time in case you run into navigation issues, etc. Worst case, just pick a place in the canyon to take a nice nap during the day. My favorite is just after the final rappel, (with the waterfall you can walk under) and just down past the tiered pools. There is a bit of sloped slickrock there on the left (looking down canyon) that is awesome for drying out gear and relaxing. There is a spring around 100 feet farther down on the right (LDC).

As Shane mentioned, everyone is just being conservative (including me) because none of us know you or your capabilities. Plenty of folks make it in fine though; so you should be fine. You should see plenty of tracks on the way in. If you don't, you are probably going the wrong way...

Have a blast! Subway is great!
A.J.

Agree 100% :nod: Some people can handline others can not. Since I don't know you I'm giving you advice better to be safe than sorry.

If you ever lose the trail hed back to where you knew you were on the trail and go from there. FYI lost people build cairns too. As of last April lost people had built carins on the approach hike to the Subway. Including one that led to a very bad unsafe location.