Bogley

Jer53621 · Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 5

I am going down Friday morning to hike Subway with 3 other rookies and I have a few questions. Do we need a rope for repelling or is it just a handline? What kind of map should I bring, I found one on Climb-Utah.com will that be sufficent? We only have one car, how hard will it be to get a ride to the trailhead if we park at the exit around 10:30 or 11:00? I would also appreciate any advice anyone has for a Novice. Thanks a bunch

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

Yes, you will need a 60' rope.

Athletic individuals will be able to handline and not need a rappel. Rappelling gear helps if you know how to use it or are not athletic.

Hitching a ride between closely spaced trailheads is popular. A large and easy to read sign stating "Next Trailhead" really speeds this process up. If you are hitching for the Subway its good to know that hitching up in the morning and down in the afternoon offers the best results.

The map on Climb-Utah.com along with the route description should be sufficient.... so long as you know how to read a map and follow directions.

A GPS works in this canyon to identify all important route junctions and the exit trail, if you have access to one I'd pack it along if you know how to use it.

Subway
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

Jer53621 wrote: how hard will it be to get a ride to the trailhead if we park at the exit around 10:30 or 11:00?

I'd also consider getting an earlier start..... noob's will probably not make it out by dark if hitching from the lower TH at 11 am.

:cool2:

Sombeech · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 12601 Location: The Rubbish Bin

We just hand lined it down... but that cold water will hurt your hands. At least bring gloves with your rope.

I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours. Of course, we were taking a ton of pictures and having a good time, but if this is your first time, you'll probably do the same.

We went without wetsuits too, but you may consider some. I can take the cold pretty well, but it's a comfort issue.

Felicia · Joined: 04 Jun 2007 Posts: 615 Location: So. CA

If you get an early start, it will not be hot-hot on the walk in. We always have a fleece and wool hat in a dry bag in case you get cold in the canyon. It usually takes 7 to 9 hours of fun!

trackrunner · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 984

IMO it is better to take gear realizing that you have the ability to downclimb handline down then to not take it and need it. It is not too dificult of a canyon. But make sure you are approaching correctly along Russel Gulch not in. You should not handline 100ft drop offs in Russel Gulch. You'll need gear there.

Advice from Tom Jones "Zion Canyoneering" It is easier to get a lift by parking a car at the exit and hitching to the trail head when you smell nice and clean early in the morning then be dirty and sweaty late at night. You'll have a better chance at getting a lift if you start early in the day then later in the day because there will be more traffic in the morning going up then the evening.

Jer53621 · Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 5

Thanks for all the great advice. We are planning on leaving SLC at 5am (work won't permit a Thurs-night departure) should we try to get out earlier than that? Thanks ya'll.

nat · Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 91 Location: salt lake city

Jer53621 wrote: Thanks for all the great advice. We are planning on leaving SLC at 5am (work won't permit a Thurs-night departure) should we try to get out earlier than that? Thanks ya'll.

I agree with Shane that an earlier start would be wise. One other recommendation: Drop everyone off at the upper/entry trailhead then have one person drive the car down to the exit trailhead. It will be easier for one person to get a ride back up, than for four of you.

Nat

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7792 Location: Local Bordello

Sombeech wrote: I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours.

Beech you were with someone who knew where they were going and how to defeat all the obstacles.... problem with noob's is they WILL GET LOST. If nothing else noob's will waste time making sure they do not get lost. It's amazing how much time a slight error in navigation can eat up... also, noob's will waste a lot of time trying to figure out the best way past each obstacle.

If you must do the late start make sure everyone is packing a headlamp and toss a few extra power bars in the backpack in case you have to sit somewhere through the night...

YMMV....

moab mark · Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 114

I think what Ice is trying to say is 4:00 am would probably be a better time to leave salt lake. Just do not miss the take out, that can really suck.
Last week we took two groups of 10 scouts through and handline all of them without any problems. If you haven't picked up your permit, pick it up at kolob on your way past.
Mark

gootwan · Joined: 13 Feb 2008 Posts: 11 Location: SoCal

It seems the classic first time Subway mistake is to end up accidentally descending Russell Gulch toward the Left Fork. I did this on my first trip, so did my brother on his first trip. Take whatever route finding precautions you can to avoid this cuz it takes up a huge chunk of valuable time to reverse course and find the correct way.

Russell does lead to the Subway but you need at least 200ft of rope and rappelling gear (and skills) to safely descend.

Jordan

gootwan · Joined: 13 Feb 2008 Posts: 11 Location: SoCal

... oh yeah, and missing the exit trail is definately a common first time error as well.

trackrunner · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 984

gootwan wrote: It seems the classic first time Subway mistake is to end up accidentally descending Russell Gulch toward the Left Fork. I did this on my first trip, so did my brother on his first trip. Take whatever route finding precautions you can to avoid this cuz it takes up a huge chunk of valuable time to reverse course and find the correct way.

Russell does lead to the Subway but you need at least 200ft of rope and rappelling gear (and skills) to safely descend.

Jordan

oh yeah, and missing the exit trail is definately a common first time error as well.

When I did it for the first time this spring I worried about making those common mistakes myself. I followed Tom Jones beta and found it to be spot on. The only time time I didn't follow it was the only time I got in trouble. (Key Hole falls was flashing at the time and the anchors were too dangerous to reach and death to down climb. :frustrated: After getting frustrated for a while I discovered the arch can be down climbed. If I would have poped out the beta I would have learned this and a bypass at another problem earlier).

:hail2thechief: to the emperor

ratagonia · Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

Early = 7 am at the trailhead. It is plenty hot out down here these days. Later than that - you're on your own...

Map: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/intro/mapcenter.php

If you have an 11 x 17 printer, download the subway map from above and print a couple of copies.

Let's assume you are all strong, athletic and lucky. Arrive earlier. You can always take a nap when you are IN the canyon. Getting a ride up at 11 am could be difficult - I don't know, I've never tried it. Most everyone driving the road knows the score and picks people up (at the appropriate time, in the early morning).

The best description is most likely in the book, and reproduced on the website: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/subway.php

I have not had good luck downclimbing, especially at the Keyhole falls. I have sprained my ankle there TWICE, so now I rappel at least that drop. How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops. Only a couple people each year mess up the handline and fall, breaking bones and spending an extra day on the adventure. If you are lucky (see above), it will not be you. If you are unlucky, you might get to meet Bo (uh, I mean, at LEAST you will get to meet Bo) or perhaps just Ray and Cody, hard to say, depends on who is on call. I am not a fan of suggesting to people WE don't know that they can just handline it. Heck, you could be an 80 yearold near cripple for all we know...

You got helmets? Wear helmets. Watersport, bike, climbing, whatever! While breaking your leg will be really uncomfortable for a fairly short period of time, breaking your head open would be less fun. A lot less.

Tom

Jer53621 · Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 5

ratagonia wrote: How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops.

Tom

Does this mean we are foolish to try this as rookies, would we be better served starting at the left fork trailhead and climbing up? Should we be encouraged or discouraged by your cautious tone. Thanks so much for the thoughtful post.

Jeremy