Bogley

[Ih8grvty]

abirken wrote: JP wrote: MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION[/b][/u][/url]

...


OUCH. I WAS WARNED BUT CURIOUS. Can I take it back now? :ne_nau:

I only clicked that because of you!
I had no idea that is what 6 quarts of blood looked like all at once.

[fourtycal]

Great read :popcorn:

Pedal bikes are here to stay, deal with it.
I just wish cyclers that are being stupid (ride against traffic on their stolen huffy's :frustrated:,) would get ticketed or spontaneously combust, it just makes us all look bad.
Maybe we should have to display our Cycling merit badge to ride with traffic :haha:

[Gixxer]

TreeHugger wrote: First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.

so how would you handle a car driving 6mph in a 40mph zone up a narrow canyon road (exercising their rights, by law)

for me, it comes down to consideration.......and there are a**holes in cars, and a**holes on bikes

[Jaxx]

Gixxer wrote: there are a**holes in cars, and a**holes on bikes

/thread

[moabfool]

Gixxer wrote: so how would you handle a car driving 6mph in a 40mph zone up a narrow canyon road (exercising their rights, by law)

It's happened to me plenty of times. I pedal right past them.

Seriously though, I get stuck behind slowpokes all the time. I usually wait patiently for a while, but I get chapped when they don't pull over when they come to a pullout. At that point they are breaking the law and are no longer within their rights. It happens about every time I drive up the switchbacks below the Mt. Carmel Tunnel. Some yahoo is on vacation taking his sweet time rubber necking at the scenery while totally oblivious that there's a string of cars piled up behind them. I'm usually trying to get to a trailhead up on the East Mesa before it's nasty hot outside. My tyrade usually goes like this: "HEY MORON! PULL OVER! I know you're on vacation, but I'm still trying to get to mine." It never works because they have their windows rolled up, but I feel better.

Here are the major differences between being stuck behind a slow car and being stuck behind a slow cyclist:

1. The motorist is capable of going faster but chooses to be annoyingly slow.
2. Bicycles aren't 5 to 8 feet wide.
3. a.The cyclist knows you're there and is keeping you from passing on purpose. He'll get back over when it's safe.
b. The motorist is conducting a visual inspection of his colon and doesn't have a clue that you're even there.

If you're riding your JXR just wait 15 seconds for an opening and turn your wrist. You'll be past me in 0.6 seconds. Just remember to abide by the 3-foot rule. When I ride up Big Cottonwood I'm always amazed how a Super Duty Ford towing a trailer can give me three feet of space but some kid on a motorcycle can't. I watch for motorcycles because I bicycle. It would be nice to get the same in return.

[TreeHugger]

JP wrote: TreeHugger wrote: but I'll bet most of you do that in your own cars and dont gripe about it.
I'm sure you own a car as well.

But, when two cars come together due to a stop sign violator, it's two cars and depending on the intersection, it could be a low impact crash. Mass and momentum win. Bike and vehicle coming together in an intersection, bike loses each and every time. Low impact or high impact; injury, serious physical injury or death will result.

Paying the price is the cyclist? Paying the price is that kid on the bike, even though he was at fault or the arrogant adult? Those are thought provoking? I'll give ya thought provoking. Have you seen a cyclist struck by a car? Have you seen a kid struck by a car? People think it's a little tap and everything is OK. BS! Head trauma, loss of limbs, paralysis, coma and then the mental trauma the operator of the vehicle and family of the loved one hit...Come on. You make it sound like getting hit is noble and you're some kind of super hero. Here's a little clip of reality, watch closely.

Remember, MASS WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (GRAPHIC)

MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION

...

Well, I'm not really sure what I said that caused you to go off on this rant. , it really has nothing to do with what I said. My point, as was Moabfools (I think) is that drivers get so angry with cyclists but why? when they do the same freakin' thing all the time. I did NOT say it's OK to globally run stop signs whenever one feels like it as if they dont apply to them, I did NOT advocate for creamin' little kids on their bicycles and I did NOT say a little tap is OK. The thought provoking part of MoabFool's post centers on the question of why do drivers get so upset about cyclists? I'm sure every cyclist that goes out on the road is hoping and assuming they will come home that night. I for one, take every precaution to ensure my safe return as I'm sure most others do as well.

[erial]

get off the bike and go for a hike. Unless you have a cold:

Somerset ravine deaths are ruled accidental
Friday, June 06, 2008
By Jim McKinnon, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
SOMERSET, Pa. -- With two dead bodies lying in ravines below Beam Rocks two months ago, state police believed they had a crime scene in Laurel Summit State Park.

"Personally," state police Lt. Brad Shields said in an interview March 31, "I find it hard to believe that two people fell off that cliff there by accident."

However, on a rocky path almost 40 feet above the spot where Christopher Cardy's remains were found, investigators discovered evidence to the contrary. That physical evidence, combined with toxicology reports from Mr. Cardy and companion Sara Baum that showed they both had substantial amounts of antihistamine in their systems, led police to conclude yesterday that their deaths were accidental.

Among the rocks above, police found a small pool of blood and a pair of broken eyeglasses that belonged to Ms. Baum. Blood droplets led to a spot at the edge of the path where it appeared someone had lost his or her footing.

Police also found a red sweatshirt, apparently used to wipe away blood from the injured Ms. Baum. Ms. Baum's body was found in a crevice 16 feet, 9 inches below the path.

Evidence also suggested someone, believed to have been Mr. Cardy, had made his way from the path to Ms. Baum.

Then, more signs of problem footing were found near her body. Police believe Mr. Cardy fell from there to his death in a ravine at the bottom of Beam Rocks.

Mr. Cardy, 25, of Ligonier Borough, and Ms. Baum, 24, of Greensburg, had gone to the park March 29 on a day trip. The two were close friends, having known each other since their teen years. They once dated and split up, but they remained close.

Ms. Baum, who previously had been married, had a son who is in the toddler age range, police said.

In the early evening of March 29, video surveillance at a nearby store showed the pair buying soft drinks, Trooper Scott Mackanick, the lead investigator on the case, said at a news conference yesterday at the state police barracks in Somerset.

In the video, Mr. Cardy was seen wearing the red sweatshirt that later was found at the top of the scene.

State police interviewed dozens of the couple's friends and witnesses who saw them park her car in the Beam Rocks lot and head toward the trails at about 5:30 p.m.

By 6 p.m., police learned days later, the eyeglasses, sweatshirt and blood evidence were discovered by a hiker. No report was made that day of the finding, but Trooper Mackanick and Cpl. Ed Thomas said the articles and timing pointed to the time of the accidental falls.

Mr. Cardy's mother, Coleen Cardy, had been told by her son that he and Ms. Baum were headed to the state park.

When he did not return home overnight, Mrs. Cardy became concerned. She drove to Beam Rocks the following morning. She found Ms. Baum's car in the parking lot, and he was reported missing shortly afterward, at 10:25 a.m. March 30.

An autopsy, done on both victims at Conemaugh Memorial Hospital, showed that both had ingested relatively large quantities of chlorpheniramine. It is a potent antihistamine, commonly found in cough syrup, and it causes drowsiness. The drug can be prescribed, and it is found in over-the-counter medications, police said.

Ms. Baum had four times the normal dosage in her system. Mr. Cardy had 30 times the normal dosage, police said.

In that state, police said, their bearings could have been affected by their use of the drug.

No alcohol was found in either of their remains, Trooper Mackanick said.

Some pills, containing the drug Coracidin, were found, but there was no evidence either of them had used them, the trooper said.

The autopsy showed Ms. Baum died of a fractured skull, likely caused by the fall into the crevice.

Mr. Cardy died of a broken neck.

[greyhair biker]

I like a good read the same as the next guy and I dont want to ruffle any feathers here but arent we getting a little off the beam here? If I want to ride on the road I have to assume that odds are not in my favor. I CANNOT compete with a vehicle NO MATTER what I do. I really do sympathize with anyone who gets hurt on their bike and drivers could do a much better job at being courteous/seeing bikers/etc. We can't be protected from everything that comes at us when we leave the 'safety' of our home. If I am riding off road and I run across a herd of ANTELOPE chances are I am gonna get run over by them if I try to pace them/ride up to them/move my body....yes you can laugh but you know it's true. I can get all upset and sue the BLM for not using better land management and keeping a tighter reign on the herds...I can ride with a gun and take potshots at them when I see them getting too close for comfort but what have I gained really? Satisfaction? I am still hurt...I still have to go through the healing process, if the antelope didn't run me through with its prongs and kill me on the spot.
I use the animal scenario for a very small bit of humor for those who missed that, but my point being I am going to ride anywhere and everywhere I can because it's what I love to do and no amount of "awareness" raised is going to stop me...except for MY OWN COMMON SENSE...so odds are I'm gonna get hurt by some damn neglegent motorist and I have to be on my toes at all times...and that isn't gonna save me either if odds are not stacked in my favor...
...I'm ranting people and I apologize if I have caused bad feelings. I am a bicycle advocate through and through - please dont get me wrong but odds are not in our favor simply by just stepping out of our homes and I refuse to live my life in fear and never leave home :mrgreen:

[PunchKing]

Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll!

[JP]

TreeHugger wrote: Well, I'm not really sure what I said that caused you to go off on this rant.
Not really you, the mentality of some that getting hit would be OK, like cyclists are "Superman". If you never seen a vehicle vs. cyclists, you have no idea how bad things get. 4-5000lb vehicle vs. 200lbs or so...math is right there for ya. Throw in some speed, done deal. Superman was even paralyzed :haha:
So, the rant was stemmed by ignorance I guess. Apples to apples, getting hit is getting hit. Kid or adult, the person who was not at fault who hit the cyclist and killed them, it doesn't make it easy. You still took someone's life and if not prepared for something like that, it haunts you for the rest of your life.
Everybody's goal is to get home safely, no matter what our mode of transportation is. There are ignorant @$$holes in every form of transportation. This is something shared by everybody, not just people belted in.

[COUNTRYBOY]

What a thread. I deal with cyclists all the time down here. Most of you have traveled SR- 9 from Hurricane to Zion? It is a 2 lane 65 MPH highway with 2 feet of pavement between the white line and the edge. When it is busy at the Park, it can be almost bumper to bumper. There are always cyclists on this road. One or two is no big deal. But there are orginized tours that have groups of 20-30 riders out on this road. When these guys come through it gets dangerous for all of us. The lanes are so narrow that you have to go into oncoming traffic to give them enough room. There are corners on that road that makes it dangerous. A couple months ago there was a large endurance race that went up 9 to Zion and back, there were several hundred riders on the road going both directions. No one in town knew about it, and we saw no police there for safety. That being said, I am not agianst cyclists on the road ways. I myself would like to ride to work if it wasn't so far. I would like to see paths next to the road for the cyclists and runners (lots of them in the early mornings too), like they have north of St. George all the way Winchester Hills.
I think everyone needs to be more considerate. Cyclists and motorists need to share the road.

[sparker1]

Try driving the highways around Gunnison and Crested Butte (Colorado) during their annual bike fest. Hundreds of cyclists on roads with too little room for them. Everyone seems to try hard to accommodate them, so I guess it works out OK.