Bogley

Jaxx · Joined: 16 Jan 2007 Posts: 1477

nice tips! thanks for the input. I was wondering about the need for pulleys and the best way to tie it off. the two person biner block is a great idea!

ratagonia · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:33 am Post subject:

moab mark wrote: Bo,
No that's not me in the pic. I made the comment about the drill because Rich on his website that seems to be on it's death bed due to the amount of posts on there now a days. But back to the drill, he answered a post I ask him with his usual type of reponse of arrogance just use bolts. So I went out and got me a new drill for bolting.
Mark

Here's one answer to your question 'over there' - since we are doing Tech Talk, 'over here'.

It CAN work with the rock quite a ways from the edge. Can also use an Omnisling (which is more like a slick), but until I get the write up together, I'd have to show you the Omni in person, next time you are down this way.

Tom

moab mark · Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 79

Tom,
We did something like that the other day in moab. But obviously if you could get the anchor closer to the edge the pull would be alot easier? Where we are having the problem is pulling the rope when the webbing is say 10 ft or so from the edge. By using your pic and extending the anchor line out to the edge then the anchor line would become harder to pull, but maybe there is a happy medium. In regards to your pic. If you are using a tree as the anchor, how much rope do you feel you can put around the tree when you pull it before you damage the rope or anchor? I know it depends but give it a shot.
When we are using enough webbing to get to the edge it becomes diffucult to pull the webbing off of the anchor. After having several tough pulls Tad and I went duh maybe we should see if we can pull this before the last guy bails. Were kind of slow.
In Zion most of the canyons are bolted but in moab and most other places we are using natural anchors. Putting webbing around anchor and then pulling both the rope down and then the webbing is a pain.

It amazes me with all of the technology in climbing gear etc. that some one has not invented something that will work for this. Obviously the ropeman is not it or probably not a shunt but something should work.
Thanks
Mark

hank moon · Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 677

moab mark wrote: It amazes me with all of the technology in climbing gear etc. that some one has not invented something that will work for this. Obviously the ropeman is not it or probably not a shunt but something should work.

I guess this didn't work well enough to survive into the 21st century...

http://tinyurl.com/5h3cxb

skianddive · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject:

ratagonia wrote: Here's one answer to your question 'over there' - since we are doing Tech Talk, 'over here'.
I hope you all noticed that, in Tom's engineering design diagram, he took the time to put little transparent helmets on his rappeller and bottom anchor. :2thumbs:

That's what all that learnin' at MIT does for a person! :nod:

moab mark · Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 79

Sorry for hijacking the guided rappel forum. But it sounds like they are to dangerous anyway :ne_nau:
Hank,
Thats looking something like the ticket, just need something that looks like it was designed in this century.
Does anyone know why Black Diamond, Petzl etc doesn't have such a device? Is the market to small, liability to high, or I'm the only one that has this problem. Sure seems like something down the line of the same concept as the ascenders is the way to go?
Mark

ratagonia · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject:

moab mark wrote: Tom,
We did something like that the other day in moab. But obviously if you could get the anchor closer to the edge the pull would be alot easier? Where we are having the problem is pulling the rope when the webbing is say 10 ft or so from the edge. Mark

OK, try this. Get your retrievable sling very clean, and leave a large biner on the end of your anchor line, so you can be *pretty sure* it will pull. Requires 4X length, though.

The wear and tear on the rock or tree is proportional to the product of length pulled by the resisting force for that pull. So if you can decrease the weight on the key piece when you pull it off, there will be less impact.

Tom

ratagonia · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject:

moab mark wrote: Tom,
We did something like that the other day in moab. But obviously if you could get the anchor closer to the edge the pull would be alot easier? Where we are having the problem is pulling the rope when the webbing is say 10 ft or so from the edge. Mark

On the tree, best to use a long loop so you do not have to pull the knot across the back of the tree. I'm thinking more it might get stuck, but also less impact on the tree.

Tom

ratagonia · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject:

moab mark wrote: Sorry for hijacking the guided rappel forum. But it sounds like they are to dangerous anyway :ne_nau:
Hank,
Thats looking something like the ticket, just need something that looks like it was designed in this century.
Does anyone know why Black Diamond, Petzl etc doesn't have such a device? Is the market to small, liability to high, or I'm the only one that has this problem. Sure seems like something down the line of the same concept as the ascenders is the way to go?
Mark

Bingo. Give the man a prize. (Carny hands Mark a stuffed animal of indeterminate species).

Tom

Jaxx · Joined: 16 Jan 2007 Posts: 1477

ok well, I guess that about wraps up the questions I had on a guided rappel...

moab mark · Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 79

Tom,
The 4 length of rope pic seems like that would work for a situation where the anchor was along ways from the edge. If the webbing rings would pull through the carabiner? The pull on the webbing would be alot easier then trying to pull it around the tree and the anchor rope would come down pretty easy to. You really don't have anymore rope than normal most of the time we have two ropes and our pull down cord. I just am not sure if the ring will go through the carabiner. But if it didn't you could probably pull the whole mess around the tree and down.
Ok now another idea on my cool releasable toy that someone needs to design. Think of a ropeman but with two side by side. Like a atc with spring loaded jaws. The rappel strand went through one side with the cam grabbing it. The end coming around the anchor would go in the other half. Then attach your pull cord and the one jaws on the anchor side would open and it would all come down. You would have the tail long and tie off to the rappel strand until the last guy went down. Maybe the jaw would not open but seems like it could be designed to??? The device would stay on the rappel strand and not have to go around the anchor. Am i nuts?
Mark

sonnylawrence · Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1

In many of the above scenarios, friction around a tree or rock is a concern. Many times I have used a Web-o-lette. http://tinyurl.com/4zfcda
It is primarily Spectra, hence slippery. I started using it when the Omni-sling proved too grabby. I have used it to slip around jagged rocks that normally catch a rope or webbing. It has a sewn loop rather than a fatter, catchier tied loop. Unfortunately it is expensive and a dedicated piece of gear.

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7623 Location: Local Bordello

Sonny.... Welcome to Bogley. :cheers:

I just want to say my favorite part of this thread is all the cool sketches. :2thumbs:

:popcorn:

tanya · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 5479 Location: Utah

sonnylawrence wrote: In many of the above scenarios, friction around a tree or rock is a concern. Many times I have used a Web-o-lette. http://tinyurl.com/4zfcda
It is primarily Spectra, hence slippery. I started using it when the Omni-sling proved too grabby. I have used it to slip around jagged rocks that normally catch a rope or webbing. It has a sewn loop rather than a fatter, catchier tied loop. Unfortunately it is expensive and a dedicated piece of gear.

Hi Sonny!

Welcome to the Group! :2thumbs: