Bogley

[bruce from bryce]

A report from the Escalante backcountry ranger:

Pass this along...
----- Forwarded by Brent McGinn/GLCA/NPS on 04/22/2008 07:56 AM -----
Jeff Kracht/GLCA/NPS
04/22/2008 08:35 AM MDT
To
Steve Luckesen/GLCA/NPS@NPS, Brent McGinn/GLCA/NPS@NPS, Dave Goodin/GLCA/NPS@NPS
cc

Subject
Fw: Neon Canyon: keeper pothole above the Golden Cathedral is a trap





To me this is just part of canyoneering.
Do we need to address this?

JEFFRO

----- Forwarded by Jeff Kracht/GLCA/NPS on 04/22/2008 08:33 AM -----
Bob Stevenson@BLM
04/21/2008 05:59 PM MDT
To: Bowdie Pollock/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Larry Glickman/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Shannon Holt/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, David Mecham/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Jeanie Linn/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Scott Brodie/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Torrian Nelson/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Steve Henry/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, August Bernardo/R4/USDAFS@FSNOTES, Jeffrey Lauersdorf/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM, Jeff Kracht/GLCA/NPS@NPS
cc: Raymond Lee/CCDO/UT/BLM/DOI@BLM
Subject: Neon Canyon: keeper pothole above the Golden Cathedral is a trap

The keeper pothole above the Golden Cathedral is a true keeper... and a trap. I spoke with 3 experienced canyoneers who reported these conditions. The low water level in the pothole means it is nearly impossible to exit the undercut lip of the pothole on the downstream side. They tried numerous pothole exit techniques, but none worked. Fortunately, they left their rappell rope in place and were able to ascend their rope and retreat up-canyon. If not for that, they would still be in that pothole... I wrote a note and drew a diagram inside the trailhead register to advise others of these conditions. (I also drew another diagram for the front desk.)

Strongly discourage anyone from attempting upper Neon Canyon at this time - conditions are dangerous!

There is currently one party of 3 canyoneers attempting Neon today, Monday 4/21 and Choprock on Tues 4/22. This party is due out on 4/23 according to the permit they wrote at the Egypt trailhead, where their gray crew cab pickup truck, (CA 8K16429) is parked. I have a copy of the permit at my desk, and the original is in the permit box under the front desk.

The hike into the Golden Cathedral from below is not affected by these conditions.

I could not find Dixie in FS Notes, could someone at the front desk pass this on to her please?

Thanks,

Bob Stevenson
Backcountry Ranger
Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument
755 West Main, PO Box 225
Escalante UT 84726
(435) 826-5603

Does anyone know who went into the canyon yesterday?

bruce from bryce

[tanya]

:eek2: Scary! Thanks for posting that Bruce!

[trackrunner]

Kurt "Oldno7" went there this weekend. Suppose to be back today. Neon was on the scheduale.

[Iceaxe]

Thanks Bruce. :2thumbs:

[Jaxx]

trackrunner wrote: Kurt "Oldno7" went there this weekend. Suppose to be back today. Neon was on the scheduale.
:eek2: I wonder if he is one of the groups that got turned around.

[Scott Card]

Iceaxe wrote: Thanks Bruce. :2thumbs: Ditto. Thanks. That is one bad keeper that slopes up and back into the pothole so a bag toss is probably useless and there is nothing for the bag to snag on at the exit (at least when I was there). It's a nice sandy exit sloping the wrong direction with not too many features to grab on to. Hate to say it and I am sure to take some flak but this may be a pick and hook type hole if I ever saw one. And it would not be easy since you would have to pick to the side not directly up the exit spot. Helmet on. I would like to see some advice on this pot hole from the gurus.

[Iceaxe]

Someone could just toss a big log into it from the rim (ala the pic below) as they hike to the drop in....

Just a thought.... there is usually more then one way to skin a cat....

[Stick]

Scott Card wrote: I would like to see some advice on this pot hole from the gurus.

I am far from being a guru, but here is my experience with it last year. There were four of us, and the pothole was about 7 feet deep. We were able to push 2 people out. We passed them the rope and they set up an meat anchor, the second person backing up the first. They got right next to the wall on the left LDC to maximize friction. We tied a loop in the rope for our first step for the next 2 people, and we were able to climb up the rope/be pulled up out of the pothole.

I'm glad there were four of us for this and not three.

I can't imagine a pack toss working unless you bring a lot of packs or potshots to toss, and there didn't seem to be any good natural features to place a hook. If anyone has any other methods beside pushing and pulling eachother out of it I would be curious to hear how they did it.

I wonder how deep it is this year. If it was much deeper I think it would have given us more problems.

[Scott Card]

Iceaxe wrote: Someone could just toss a big log into it from the rim (ala the pic below) as they hike to the drop in....

Just a thought.... there is usually more then one way to skin a cat....



Agreed that there is more than one way to skin that cat. But the year we went in the water was about a foot below the lip. We beached whaled our way out and then checked the depth since I was . We couldn't touch bottom and after jumping in and going under a bit we figured it was more than 10 feet deep water at the point of exit. So throw a BIG log in. :lol8: That photo shows the nasty lip nicely. Now just picture about a 20 degree (?) sandy slope back into the hole as you try to exit. It's potentially a nasty one alright.

[Scott Card]

Stick wrote:
I am far from being a guru, but here is my experience with it last year. There were four of us, and the pothole was about 7 feet deep. That is the problem with this particular hole and I guess every other hole for that matter. The depth is seasonal and changes with every storm. When we went in we were doing cannon balls off the little rap and then after exiting doing the same back into the hole. Some guys never touched. Finally one went in straight and swam down and finally touched. It was deep when I was there. Gratefully the water was only a foot from the top of the lip.

After looking at that photo again, it seems to me that the hooking would have to be g-picked (the horror) and go vertical to one side or the other and then horizontal for a hole or two. Again, nasty. :twisted:

[Iceaxe]

perhaps something I experimented with about 10 years ago.....

Take a softball and drill a hole through the center. Tie a small rope (6mm to 8mm) through the hole..... then toss the softball down canyon as far as possible. You can chuck a softball a long ways (unless you throw like a girl :haha: ). The softball also bounces nicely off the walls and continues down canyon.... the softball gets snagged and you have your anchor.... this worked well the couple of times I tried it....

...also... I've just tied about 4 hooks into a rats nest and tossed it down canyon. Same idea as above and anyone doing Neon should at least be packing a couple of hooks..... Just have to get the rats nest of hooks to snag something.....

Or maybe something I saw in Dave Blacks new book called an octopus.....

It's similar to the rats nest of hooks but perhaps more refined.... It's basically a pack toss with several hooks attached to the pack with runners.... the idea is to get one of the hooks to catch something... and combined with the pack you have enough friction to climb out.

I'm interested in other ideas.....

:cool2:

[Iceaxe]

Scott Card wrote: After looking at that photo again, it seems to me that the hooking would have to be g-picked (the horror) and go vertical to one side or the other and then horizontal for a hole or two. Again, nasty.

Traditionally hooking was done by drilling a small round hole (not chopping giant craters with a G-Pick).... there is no reason to use a g-pick to hook if you know what you are doing.

The hole in the picture below is about 5 times larger then required. Traditionally about a 3/16 or 1/4" bit was used to drill the hooking holes.

Drilling and hooking is really old school.... Newer methods have yielded better results.

[Scott Card]

Iceaxe wrote: perhaps something I experimented with about 10 years ago.....

Take a softball and drill a hole through the center. Tie a small rope (6mm to 8mm) through the hole..... then toss the softball down canyon as far as possible. You can chuck a softball a long ways (unless you throw like a girl :haha: ). The softball also bounces nicely off the walls and continues down canyon.... the softball gets snagged and you have your anchor.... this worked well the couple of times I tried it....

...also... I've just tied about 4 hooks into a rats nest and tossed it down canyon. Same idea as above and anyone doing Neon should at least be packing a couple of hooks..... Just have to get the rats nest of hooks to snag something.....

Or maybe something I saw in Dave Blacks new book called an octopus.....

It's similar to the rats nest of hooks but perhaps more refined.... It's basically a pack toss with several hooks attached to the pack with runners.... the idea is to get one of the hooks to catch something... and combined with the pack you have enough friction to climb out.

I'm interested in other ideas.....

:cool2:

I tried the softball thing in the Squeeze. And no, I didn't throw like a girl. :haha: It didn't work because the walls were so polished and there was no feature, choke stone or log jam to catch on. I have often thought I might just take that thing back into Imlay or some such canyon with log jams. Also, the pack with hooks probably wouldn't work because it is sandy for quite some distance from the exit. The only trees/ boulders seemed to be around the corner towards the Cathedral. I even had my cheater stick (home made Happy Hooker) in Neon and honestly, there are not many, if any, features to hook onto at the exit. Perhaps this fall if plans happen and conditions are good/nasty I will try it again with a bunch of different techniques.

[Scott Card]

Iceaxe wrote: Traditionally hooking was done by drilling a small round hole (not chopping giant craters with a G-Pick).... there is no reason to use a g-pick to hook if you know what you are doing.

The hole in the picture below is about 5 times larger then required. Traditionally about a 3/16 or 1/4" bit was used to drill the hooking holes.

Drilling and hooking is really old school.... Newer methods have yielded better results.



Oops, my bad. I meant drill hole. :oops:

[Iceaxe]

Scott Card wrote: I tried the softball thing in the Squeeze. And no, I didn't throw like a girl. :haha: It didn't work because the walls were so polished and there was no feature, choke stone or log jam to catch on.

Maybe tie a couple hooks to the softball.... you should still be able to toss it a long ways and the hooks might catch something....

....I'm just tossing out ideas....

:popcorn: