Bogley

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7626 Location: Local Bordello

Below are a couple of my better pictures from Tom's San Rafael Swellfest. These are from the Saturady Knotted Rope Group.

:popcorn:

Scott Card · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1298 Location: Provo, Utah

Looks like a lot more water than what we encountered in Quandary on the same day. Is this normal ?...More water in Knotted Rope than Quandary? Did you go up Ramp? Looks like a fun canyon with a good group. :2thumbs:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7626 Location: Local Bordello

We had a lot of water in Knotted Rope. I'm guessing it was 1/2 full. I would say the dry conditions you encountered in Quandary were unusual.

I just updated a couple of my route descriptions and more pics from the weekend can be viewed there.

Muddy Creek Gorge
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/mcgorge.htm

Knotted Rope
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/knotted.htm

:popcorn:

accadacca · Joined: 02 Dec 2004 Posts: 7035 Location: The Interwebs

This buds fer yaaaaa'll!! :drink:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7626 Location: Local Bordello

Yeah, a group hiked down the Muddy River Gorge with cold beer and met us about mid canyon...... it was probably the best tasting beer I had all week.

:cheers:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7626 Location: Local Bordello

FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope. The canyon is much better without the pipes. Solving the first big keeper is interesting :nod:

There are easy ways to solve the problem that are not obvious and hard ways that are obvious.... :five:

I used to be a fan of keeping the pipes, but after doing the canyon and not using them I now think they should be removed if possible. The canyon is more fun and a little more challenging without the pipes. Only real danger is the first big keeper, and if you can't figure it out you can always turn around, hike back out, and come back anther day after improving your skills.

:bootyshake:

hesse15 · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 378 Location: slc and sardegna

ah
Iceaxe wrote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope. The canyon is much better without the pipes. Solving the first big keeper is interesting :nod:

There are easy ways to solve the problem that are not obvious and hard ways that are obvious.... :five:

I used to be a fan of keeping the pipes, but after doing the canyon and not using them I now think they should be removed if possible. The canyon is more fun and a little more challenging without the pipes. Only real danger is the first big keeper, and if you can't figure it out you can always turn around, hike back out, and come back anther day after improving your skills.

:bootyshake:

Scout Master · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 285 Location: Kaysville

Quote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope

Any chance Marie Coray would still be alive if the pipes had not been removed?

hank moon · Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 677

Scout Master wrote: Quote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope

Any chance Marie Coray would still be alive if the pipes had not been removed?

Doesn't matter.

rockgremlin · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3824 Location: Hotel California

Scout Master wrote: Quote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope

Any chance Marie Coray would still be alive if the pipes had not been removed?

That was my same question....and I venture that the answer is yes.

rockgremlin · Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3824 Location: Hotel California

hank moon wrote: Doesn't matter.

Now we know who removed em. :mrgreen:

hank moon · Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 677

rockgremlin wrote: hank moon wrote: Doesn't matter.

Now we know who removed em. :mrgreen:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Iceaxe · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 7626 Location: Local Bordello

Scout Master wrote: Any chance Marie Coray would still be alive if the pipes had not been removed?

Not if she broke her arm and fell in, climbing the pipes would be much harder then climbing a rope with loops tied into it.

FWIW: Tom has some good pictures of the old pipes in the pothole.
http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/swell/knotrope.htm
Watch the slideshow in the fourth pictures down. The guy on Tom's site is doing this the hard way, the simple way was to take the tall pipe sticking out and pole vault accross.

:cool2:

hesse15 · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 378 Location: slc and sardegna

page 46 kelsey book description for miner hollow aka knotted rope
bypass the first group of PH on some narrow ledges to the left ,you will come to a 125 m section with several deep PHs.
in the first 2 PH you will find pipes carried down from above by hikers.use these pipes to help get around two, 3m-deep PHs on the right side

i think will be nice that after something is in a route description in a book it will not modified.
not anybody that go in the outdoors is connected to interet any single day.

could be personal agreement or disagreement of what people write in a book
but regarding bolts or other safety device mentioned to finish an hike safely in a canyon i do not think they must be removed by humans.If is a flood that remove them is an act of God, if is a human act is a act of xxxxxxxx

quote="hesse15"]ah
Iceaxe wrote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope. The canyon is much better without the pipes. Solving the first big keeper is interesting :nod:

There are easy ways to solve the problem that are not obvious and hard ways that are obvious.... :five:

I used to be a fan of keeping the pipes, but after doing the canyon and not using them I now think they should be removed if possible. The canyon is more fun and a little more challenging without the pipes. Only real danger is the first big keeper, and if you can't figure it out you can always turn around, hike back out, and come back anther day after improving your skills.

:bootyshake: [/quote]

ajroadtrips · Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 134

hank moon wrote: Scout Master wrote: Quote: FYI: Some of the pipes have been removed from Knotted Rope

Any chance Marie Coray would still be alive if the pipes had not been removed?

Doesn't matter.

Huh? I think it does matter as a point for discussion.

If you choose to remove bolts/pipes/whatever from a canyon that have been used in the past to aid in descent, you could cause someone to have an accident. This was an example of worst case.

Iceaxe wrote: Not if she broke her arm and fell in, climbing the pipes would be much harder then climbing a rope with loops tied into it.

My 2 cents are that a pipe there would help greatly in a rescue situation, and perhaps would have prevented this accident from occurring. The pipe was originally placed there because other groups had needed it.

Assuming the pipe was there, they may not have tried the slabby traverse that I suspect resulted in the fall, but shimmied over the pipe the way many used to do it. I would do the pipe shimmy over the slabby traverse if it were me.

Nice attempt to dodge the issue Ice. You supposition is correct, climbing the pipes would be hard with a broken arm, but you are assuming the broken arm would have occurred with the pipes in place, which I do not believe, or think is at least debatable.