Bogley

[trackrunner]

UtahAdventureGuide wrote: Hey, Thanks for the TR. I plan on doing the Subway this weekend. I did it a couple years ago when the flow was over 1,500 CFS out of North Fork. Here are some pictures and our TR.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Subway

Here's a picture and video of keyhole when we did it.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_Falls

can you tell me if there was just as much water when you did it?

pictures would be helpful.

Thanks
It's hard to tell looking at the pictures I'd say your adventure through had a little more current.

Note the Wildcat trail/Northgate trail not all the snow had melted, vast majority in the sun area had. The tree covered areas still had some snow. Walking in the slick rock drainage areas had a small trickle. There would be more snow higher up in elevation. Only recently has Southern Utah had exceptionally warm tempters. When we went it was the first 80 day for St. George, most of the other times it was 70 or high 60's. More of the snow is melting now; how much, I don’t know? A Shorty wetsuit was fine by me, don’t forget the neoprene socks. :cold: If you have to warm up, warm up on the beaches in the sun. Every time we needed to warm up we took off our shoes and sat in the warm sun.

This advice is from when we did it so things could have become more tame, or worse. Because of the current and water I'd advise not to down-climb or jump the rappels. If there was current through the narrow section (2nd technical section) skip on it and go up high on the bypass, left side canyon. The rappel in there has a hydraulic (weak at the time, but scary when not expecting it) and retreat back up canyon was impossible, luck was on my side. Though if you can go through look for my sunglasses at the bottom of the rappel (in the water and surrounding area out of the narrows, swim up from bottom if skip), I want it back, was a gift. I'd be very grateful. :hail2thechief: Keyhole falls we experienced strong & swift current. If the same for you I'd skip it. It was too dangerous to reach the new bolts. Too swift to use the old bolt and rappel the waterfall. We climbed down through the arch, located next to the waterfall left down canyon, and raped/handline. There was webbing on the arch for an anchor. If the current isn't too swift you could use the old bolt. If the new bolts can safely be reached use them. Problems weren't too hard to overcome if you thought about it and kept saftey in mind.

Find my sunglasses please.
:hail2thechief: :2thumbs:

[Ryebrye]

Quote: Because of the current and water I'd advise not to down-climb or jump the rappels. If there was current through the narrow section (2nd technical section) skip on it and go up high on the bypass, left side canyon. The rappel in there has a hydraulic (weak at the time, but scary when not expecting it) and retreat back up canyon was impossible,

I was on that death march in 2005- (I'm the one who took those pictures)... The water was chest deep in the section leading up to the keyhole falls, and waist-deep in the section immediatley before the falls.

For us, it was less risky to do some crazy highball retreats up the side of the canyon than it was to try to get down Keyhole falls. It was some really sketchy upclimbing, and to this day is probably the most dangerous thing I have ever done in my life.

That being said - if anyone does ever get near keyhole falls and sees the water is too high, retreat back and there is a ledge on the lefthand side (left-hand when you are going back upcanyon) with a big tree growing out of it about 20 feet up there that is an adequate bivy spot if you are absolutely unable to get past the keyhole falls.

That being said - sounds like it's in prime conditions!

[UtahAdventureGuide]

trackrunner wrote: After my meltdown :kboom: I unwind my panties and reach for my sunglasses. Oh-no! I lost it in the waterfall. We look and soon realize my expensive sunglasses are long gone (If you find them, I want them back it was a birthday present from my wife). :cry1: I’m bummed but I’m more thankful that previous situation turned out so good. LESSON LEARNED, glasses go into protective caring case while canyoneering. I’m glad I wore my contacts today or I’d really be screwed. :phew:

Just then a group of two with out wetsuits catches us. One has a tank top the other a cotton shirt. One of them is not wearing shoes. I think he must be warming up his cold feet in the warm sun and rock like me. :kickit: We talk about the hike. He tells me he lost his shoes at the last water fall trying to do what we did. :eek2: What you lost your shoes and now you are going to have to hike out barefoot? Damn . . . Well good luck. :help:


Did the Subway on Saturday, unfortunately I did not find your sunglasses but I did pick up a single Nike tennis shoe. If whoever lost it wants it back just let me know. If i don't hear anything in a couple weeks I'll list it on ebay. :razz:

[trackrunner]

UtahAdventureGuide wrote: trackrunner wrote: After my meltdown :kboom: I unwind my panties and reach for my sunglasses. Oh-no! I lost it in the waterfall. We look and soon realize my expensive sunglasses are long gone (If you find them, I want them back it was a birthday present from my wife). :cry1: I’m bummed but I’m more thankful that previous situation turned out so good. LESSON LEARNED, glasses go into protective caring case while canyoneering. I’m glad I wore my contacts today or I’d really be screwed. :phew:

Just then a group of two with out wetsuits catches us. One has a tank top the other a cotton shirt. One of them is not wearing shoes. I think he must be warming up his cold feet in the warm sun and rock like me. :kickit: We talk about the hike. He tells me he lost his shoes at the last water fall trying to do what we did. :eek2: What you lost your shoes and now you are going to have to hike out barefoot? Damn . . . Well good luck. :help:


Did the Subway on Saturday, unfortunately I did not find your sunglasses but I did pick up a single Nike tennis shoe. If whoever lost it wants it back just let me know. If i don't hear anything in a couple weeks I'll list it on ebay. :razz:
Thanks for looking. The shoe does not belong to me or anyone in my group. We spotted a shoeless canyoneer who lost his shoes though, but he was not in my group or the friends group we met in the canyon.

[Iceaxe]

UtahAdventureGuide wrote: Did the Subway on Saturday, unfortunately I did not find your sunglasses but I did pick up a single Nike tennis shoe. If whoever lost it wants it back just let me know. If i don't hear anything in a couple weeks I'll list it on ebay. :razz:

Das Boot.... err... I mean Das Shoe....

:lol8:

[UtahAdventureGuide]

[tanya]

trackrunner wrote: A Shorty wetsuit was fine by me, don’t forget the neoprene socks. :cold: If you have to warm up, warm up on the beaches in the sun. Every time we needed to warm up we took off our shoes and sat in the warm sun.


Some good socks are important this time of year. The ones I wore this weekend were not so great! My feet froze, so did another guys who had on some super thick ones.

[ratagonia]

tanya wrote:
Some good socks are important this time of year. The ones I wore this weekend were not so great! My feet froze, so did another guys who had on some super thick ones.

What did you wear that did not work? In cold water conditions, those 5mm ones that ZAC sells work real well, but the sizing is kind of messed up.

Tom

[tanya]

They were some of Bo's and they keep his feet warm. I guess I am just cold footed, but I think they were only 1mm. I had lost my 2mm NRS socks but Bo emailed and said he found them. I stayed pretty warm with those in places like Das Boot.

http://nrsweb.resultspage.com/boating/Neoprene%20Socks

Bo ordered me some even warmer ones just in case I follow Ram through one of his icy adventures next week. :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: I might stop by ZAC on Friday and get a pair of those 5mm socks!

Even though it scares me when men carry axes through canyons to chop through the snow. :mrgreen:

The Bushwhackers feet were same as mine.... foot numb and stiff.. really cold, and he had on really thick socks. The canyon itself was not all that cold though? I don't know why our feet actually were that bad? Bo did not even have on neoprene socks and never complained.

[Scott Card]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.

[tanya]

Scott Card wrote: Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

I wear a NRS Extreme drysuit, I usually wear a thin tight under armor shirt and a light weight fleece sweater. the further you can keep the drysuit material away from your skin the warmer you will be. I also wear the NRS 5 mm socks, the are very warm.

[tanya]

http://www.gobros.com/cat/Under-Armour-Cold-Gear-100609-Womens-pg1.html

Like this stuff?

[Bo_Beck]

tanya wrote: Scott Card wrote: Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

I have this 2-piece "powerstretch" 100 Wt. underwear by Lowe Alpine that I purchased 20 years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up for you to try in Misery next weekend with your new Kokatat Goretex Front entry drysuit that just arrived. The combo of this underwear and my drysuit has taken me through Heaps numerous times in sweet comfort! If it works for you, I would be able to get you the equivalent stuff by Mountain Hardwear. Very Compact, warm and more importantly WARM! :nod:

[Bo_Beck]

Bo_Beck wrote: tanya wrote: Scott Card wrote: Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

I have this 2-piece "powerstretch" 100 Wt. underwear by Lowe Alpine that I purchased 20 years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up for you to try in Misery next weekend with your new Kokatat Goretex Front entry drysuit that just arrived. The combo of this underwear and my drysuit has taken me through Heaps numerous times in sweet comfort! If it works for you, I would be able to get you the equivalent stuff by Mountain Hardwear. Very Compact, warm and more importantly WARM! :nod:

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1243&prod=509&cat=1261&viewAll=False
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1243&prod=504&cat=1261&viewAll=False