Bogley

[deathcricket]

First, if this is the wrong place to put this, very sorry. But I figured since I'm working my goal is to go canyoneering and learning to rappell the 1st step.... well it seemed right at the time. :)

About a month ago, I got a chance to go rappelling for the 1st time. Had a blast! The place we went is in St. George near Snow canyon (just outside off the road). It has a big long name that starts with a "C" I believe but can't recall the name now. It's an ideal spot to learn really. Very solid anchors made of welded re-bar with 3 backups. And then there is a lower spot you can walk down to, so you can get strapped in and comfortable without having to walk off the top edge, which in my humble opinion was the hardest part.

I went with a guy from work named Josh, who was totally cool and brought 4 of us out there (3 noobs). He also had 4 sets of harnesses which was an added bonus. We went about 6-8 times each, and learned all the basic stuff like stopping, tieing off, etc. The first thing I learned is I need some thicker gloves, lol. The ones I brought were wayyyy to thin and that rope got friggin hot.

Then after we got more famiiliar with everything, he showed us how to "tie off" and do some cool jumps and 360's. Not usefull in a canyoneering session (unless you needed to jump a large gap I guess), but was hella fun. All of the pics you'll see we were jumping over a person, didn't want to bang our heads on a rock.

I never really considered myself to have a fear of heights, but the first part going over the ledge had me super nervous I admit. I think the distance was about 175 feet and the person on the bottom (belaying?) looked like a little ant. Once I got over the edge and leaned back it wasn't that scary at all, felt pretty nice. So all in all it was a blast.

I still have quite a bit to learn of course before I attempt a "serious" canyon I think. Stuff like the knots and going "up" the rope (if needed) are still foreign concepts. But I'm very anxious to try again if I get an opportunity. I'm planning on purchasing equipment when finances permit. If anyone has advice on a "starter" kit that would be great. Most likely I'll just get a 200 foot static 11mm rope and whatever harness has decent padding in the store. Then as I become more knowledgeable I'll upgrade.

Here's some pics! I DIDN'T KNOW that they get arranged first to last so LOOK AT THEM IN REVERSE :P

-Deathcricket-

[Sombeech]

That guy looks like he knows what he's doing. :cool2: That's actually a very cool shot.

Yeah, I remember my first time rapelling. I could hardly get over the edge. It felt like the rope was stuck, but it was just myself filled with fear.

Cool pictures, man. 175' is a decent height to start on. :nod:

[accadacca]

Yeah, that is sweet! Ahhh the red rock of St George is a welcome site. :cool2:

[marc olivares]

Baaaaad newbie, bouncing on the ropes is a major newbie no-no :nono:

oh i'd beat ass if you tried that shit on my ropes!
must treat ropes w/ great respect... your life hangs on them, you know.

oh... welcome to the wonderful world of abseiling

[shaggy125]

marc olivares wrote: Baaaaad newbie, bouncing on the ropes is a major newbie no-no :nono:

Yea stunt rappelling like this on a cliff where you've got a more than bomber anchor and your on a really fat rope (I hope it was a fat rope at least) can be fun, but don't plan on bouncing around when you start canyoneering. Your usually on skinny ropes and once you see some of the crap we use as anchors, you'll understand why we don't bounce, we slide down nice and easy. Now that you've tried rappin, we should get you on a canyoneering trip one of these weekends. Start begging and you might get an invite.

Eric.

[rockgremlin]

Ya, I have to echo the remarks made above. First off, looks like you had a blast. And, kudos to whomever took the photos. Those are some great action shots!! :2thumbs:

That said, I'm glad you guys were all able to walk away alive and uninjured. Last year an EXPERIENCED climber fell to his death doing something similar to what you guys were doing - hot-dogging on fixed lines from a popular climbing rock here in Salt Lake.
Those anchors can be bomb-proof, but your ropes aren't. When there is an excess of activity during the rappel (ie hot-dogging, bouncing around, descending "commando-style," whatever) the rope rubs on friction points, and you may seriously damage your ropes, and possibly even saw through your rope mid-rappel -- which means that you descend the rest of the way at 9.81 meters per second^2....SPLAT!!!

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!! In canyoneering SAFETY is the number one priority!!! As Marc said, those ropes are your lifelines - treat them with care!!!

You mentioned a start-up list. Here's a few suggestions:

~60m static rope (Start out with either 10 or 11 mm, and get a skinnier rope as you gain more experience)
~Harness (doesn't have to be fancy, just comfortable)
~Belay Device -- figure eights are good, but I prefer the ATC-XP, which is quite popular
~2-3 extra carabiners
~extra webbing
~gloves (which you have already found out about)
~some reliable shoes. The 5.10 Canyoneers are great, but aren't necessary unless you really get into the sport, and plan on using them often.
~A HELMET!!

[accadacca]

I don't care what they say this picture is just COOL! :cool2:

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Darn it I don't want to be a fun hater so I'm trying to keep this light.It may look cool, but it gives me the willies.

What they said.

You weren't canyoneering, you were rappelling, so you don't really deserve a scolding or anything (except for not wearing helmets). Good job on getting out and doing something, even if it isn't exactly applicable. We have a nice cliff where we do similar stunt rappel kind of stuff here at Diamond Fork. There aren't any edges for the rope to wear on, we use thick ropes, thick gloves, bounce, jump, rappel commando-style. None of those techniques or conditions apply to canyoneering.

Rappelling is the most dangerous aspect of any sort of climbing (I believe more people die coming down from the top than going up) and that goes for canyoneering too. A lot of stuff can go wrong, and only one thing has to. You can do alot of things to minimize those risks though.

I rarely use gloves for rappelling while canyoneering. If you feel like you need them, then you're not rappelling correctly or setting enough friction. If you use them for convenience and to save your hands some wear, thats cool, most people do.

Not many people I know really relish the rappelling aspect of canyoneering. Some see it is a necessary evil. It can be fun, but it just isn't the biggest draw for me or alot of people I know. There just isn't much to it. It seems that rappelling was a big draw early on, but the thrill of rappelling gets less and less the more I go. Given a choice between a big rappel and a challenging downclimb, I'll take the downclimbing every time: now that never gets old :2thumbs:

I'ts time for Shane to insert some dirty analogy here about how rappelling is like three way with your grandparents or something.

PS
For some (not always perfect, but you'll get the idea) examples of canyoneering type rappelling see some of erics videos. Definitely not extreme nor glorious, or even that fun, but essential for remaining not- dead for long.

[marc olivares]

rock_ski_cowboy wrote: Given a choice between a big rappel and a challenging downclimb, I'll take the downclimbing every time: now that never gets old :2thumbs:


WORD!....


you want exciting....try trad climbing when one of your own "self placed" anchors lets go on a fall. it's these instants that make you earn a HUGE respect for your ropes.


i didn't even touch the no helmet issue.... :frustrated:

[James_B_Wads2000]

rockgremlin wrote: Last year an EXPERIENCED climber fell to his death doing something similar to what you guys were doing - hot-dogging on fixed lines from a popular climbing rock here in Salt Lake.


Are you talking about the guy at Pete's Rock? I thought the anchor failed not the ropes. I learned to rapel there years back, blows my mind that someone died there.

James

[rock_ski_cowboy]

rockgremlin wrote: which means that you descend the rest of the way at 9.81 meters per second^2....SPLAT!!!


Hey, you didn't account for wind resistance! :lol8:

[rock_ski_cowboy]

rock_ski_cowboy wrote:
So you don't really deserve a scolding or anything (except for not wearing helmets).

Just noticed our buddy DeathCricket WAS wearing a helmet. Sweet! :2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

:nono: He and two others were new to rapelling, but the dude doing the "stunts" was not, he was the veteran that was helping these guys go the first time, and probably knew what he was doing. (it was his equipment also)

deathcricket is the guy in the black in his last photo. I don't blame him for having some fun. When things are done right, which I'm sure they were, you can afford to try some things. I never went rappelling because it was just "exercise" and not fun. That's the whole point of going, isn't it? If it was all about going straight down the wall, no stopping or waiting around, I don't think I'd ever go again.

Go easy on the dude. :cool2: He gave us some cool pictures.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Sombeech wrote: :nono: He and two others were new to rapelling, but the dude doing the "stunts" was not, he was the veteran that was helping these guys go the first time, and probably knew what he was doing. (it was his equipment also)

deathcricket is the guy in the black in his last photo. I don't blame him for having some fun. When things are done right, which I'm sure they were, you can afford to try some things. I never went rappelling because it was just "exercise" and not fun. That's the whole point of going, isn't it? If it was all about going straight down the wall, no stopping or waiting around, I don't think I'd ever go again.

Go easy on the dude. :cool2: He gave us some cool pictures.
:nono:
I can't help but notice but its the guys with no experience chiming in here how cool this is and that its AOK. I personally have seen one of my ropes sawed in half due to bouncy rappelling-- and that was unintentional bouncing-- it was just a difficult rappel and they were new to it. We weren't canyoneering, just out doing a cool rappel. Ruined my rope, but the scary thing was that my brothers were on it a few minutes earlier.

In my original post I just wanted to make the point that stunt rappelling and canyoneering are two very unrelated things and that what you do or learn in one doesn't translate to the other. I also made it clear that I wasn't dissing deathcricket or his buddies.

Since this is a canyoneering forum, it seems we should be promoting safe practices as they relate to canyoneering and give that preference to cool pictures.

[rockgremlin]

James_B_Wads2000 wrote: rockgremlin wrote: Last year an EXPERIENCED climber fell to his death doing something similar to what you guys were doing - hot-dogging on fixed lines from a popular climbing rock here in Salt Lake.


Are you talking about the guy at Pete's Rock? I thought the anchor failed not the ropes. I learned to rapel there years back, blows my mind that someone died there.

James

Ya you're right, it was Pete's Rock, and his anchor did fail, however, the beta I got said that his anchor failed because he was bouncing around a little too wildly on the rope. Obviously enough to shock load the anchor, and jar it loose.